Talk:Education in Iran/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Comment

May be somebody could translate the education section from the French version of WP which is good.

Template:Education infobox

I created a template, Template:Education infobox which can give a quick at a glance demographics table for education articles. See its implementation at Education in the United States and feel free to help improve the template.--naryathegreat | (talk) 01:00, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

Dates of the school year

Greetings all. The page Academic term lists countries by the date/extent of the school year. North America, Europe, Asia, and Oceania are almost exclusively represented on the list. This country has not yet been added onto the page. Would anyone be able to pop over, and give it a quick edit? Thanks, samwaltz 22:29, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

islam

please find more facts about the first universities in iran i know for a fact that there were several umniversities before islam the most prominnt of these being Gundishapur —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.143.137.188 (talk) 00:06, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Needs Citations

This page is in dire need of citations. It reads like political propaganda promoting post revolutionary Iran. Paulish (talk) 01:18, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

IQ of the nations

This section is totally irrelevant. I am removing it from the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pbehnam (talk • contribs) 20:11, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Women's ban

The article dealing with the ban on women is a POV pork of this, it should be merged here into "Women in education" with possible subsectionsLihaas (talk) 08:26, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

It is a POV fork how exactly? And women are barely even covered in this article, meaning that merging it here would make it undue weight in this article, nevermind the fact that there isn't a problem with keeping it as an independent article. SilverserenC 08:55, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
A POV fork of trying to draw UNDUE attention to any and all criticism of Iranian government actions in order to spread some such desecration. At any rate, there IS an article that deals with the issue. 3 paragraphs and 3 reactions for an article which could go here as this is not long to simply highlight a certain issue is POV and UNDUE. "And women are barely even covered in this article" indicated the POV-pushing nature of it as UNDUE. How thats undue weight here i dont understand, but am willing to do so.Lihaas (talk) 10:06, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
I support merge, looks like WP:RECENTISM. Also, don't see any size concerns, justifying split. Brandmeistertalk 16:05, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
1) Recentism is an essay. And it even states that one test you can use to determine whether something is recentism or not is to ask whether the subject will still be considered important in ten years. So long as this policy change isn't undone, I do believe it will be important in ten years as well regarding Iranian history, so it achieves independent notability according to WP:RECENTISM. 2) It was never split in the first place. And there is absolutely no reason to merge it into the Women section in this article, because the section in this article is meant to be summarizing the entirety of women's educational history in Iran and not just this even. So, yes, it would be WP:UNDUE. SilverserenC 22:22, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
I'm not a fan of Iranian gender separation, but in pure technical terms I don't see any need for a standalone article per WP:SPINOUT. It is always possible to create the appropriate section within the Education in Iran or accommodate the info into existing Women in education section. Brandmeistertalk 11:42, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
I think there was sufficient coverage, and also posted at ITN, to warrant a new article, which should be put into the section "Women in education" in this article as "Main article:..." --Activism1234 17:19, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
I support a merge, per WP:RECENTISM and my original concerns. Mysterious Whisper (SHOUT) 21:40, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
You said it would only lose independent notability, in your opinion, if the policy change was later undone and I agreed with that. But it has not been undone, so it still has independent notability. SilverserenC 22:22, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
I never stated it was notable to begin with (I apologize if that was implied); I merely gave that example to show how fleeting any perceived notability might be. My original original statement was: "...a stand-alone article might violate WP:NOT#NEWS ("Wikipedia considers the enduring notability of persons and events.")."; and I stand by that. Mysterious Whisper (SHOUT) 23:40, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
And I stand by that, if the policy isn't undone, that it will then have enduring notability and effect on the women of Iran. SilverserenC 00:28, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
{clarification} I agree it deserves detailed mention, but I remain unconvinced it should have it's own article. Mysterious Whisper (SHOUT) 01:00, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
We'll have to see. A merge request should really wait at least a week, though more like a month, after the event occurred. Because by that point, the historical importance of the event is much easier to grasp and a merge request would have much more weight behind it (if the evidence pointed in that direction). SilverserenC 01:05, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
Thats also not a requirement. Its going to be off ITN soon so we can merge it with consensus (which seems to be heading that way) when that happens.Lihaas (talk) 09:12, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
New Idea: Are there any other instances of 'Iranian restrictions on female university students' that have been well-documented? If so, I could easily support a stand-alone article. See here. Mysterious Whisper (SHOUT) 02:48, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
I would be fine with expanding the scope of the topic beyond this event to all restrictions, but I do not know of any other events such as this that have occurred in the past. I guess that's a question for an editor who is more knowledgeable about Iranian history. SilverserenC 04:59, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
We could also alter the tittle to allow for broader coverage, maybe: "Iranian restrictions on women's education" or somesuch. Mysterious Whisper (SHOUT) 12:37, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Mysterious Whisper... Yes, there are. I'd advise for them to be included in the article as well (I'd help out tomorrow when I get a chance).

  • This AP article from 2010 on university restrictions on a number of fields - among them women studies.
  • This article from 2011 on growing separation between the genders in universities, such as universities announcing seperate classes for men and women.
  • This BBC article - not directly related to restrictions, but includes anger by female students... Not sure whether to include.
  • This Amnesty International report (see page 3).

--Activism1234 05:20, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't think the BBC article should be included under this topic. Here is what I was able to do with the other three (and some content gleaned from Women's_rights_in_Iran#Education). I'd still like to see some references from books, documentaries, etc; but 17 references to news sources is still 17 references. Mysterious Whisper (SHOUT) 13:56, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
I boldly made the initial changes to the article. With the new, broader topic scope, I change my !vote to Keep the separate article. (Indeed, the merge discussion should probably be closed, since the focus of the article is completely different now). Mysterious Whisper (SHOUT) 14:38, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
That looks really good. Though they should probably be in chronological order starting from the oldest, so you should flip the order in there. SilverserenC 16:46, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
Never mind. I saw you implemented the draft, so I went ahead and flipped it myself. SilverserenC 16:50, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
Oppose merger as per WP:UNDUE. 207.158.40.244 (talk) 08:53, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
Seriously, this is still open? When this discussion was opened, the article covered a relatively trivial event; it now covers a broad topic. IMO, it's a completely different article now (just look at the title of this section; It's no longer just about the 'Woman's ban'), and this merge discussion should be closed unless the pro-mergers come up with new arguments (or confirm that their old arguments are still relevant to the current article). Mysterious Whisper (SHOUT) 11:45, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

K12 education

K12 is a specifically American concept that won't be well understood beyond American readers. Wikipedia should probably avoid parochialism and American-centric articles. I think the term high school education or primary & secondary education may be more appropriate. 121.73.7.84 (talk) 11:42, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

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Proposed merge with International Baccalaureate schools in Iran

While the individual schools themselves might be notable, the topic of International Baccalaureate schools in Iran as a whole does not appear to have significant coverage in reliable sources. The contents would be better presented in the Education in Iran article, perhaps in the History or "Prominent high schools in Iran" section. Mz7 (talk) 01:28, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

@Mz7: Ya I think.....-SeniorStar (talk) 01:31, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
All right, I'm going to go ahead and do the merge this weekend if no one objects. Main reason I ask first is because I live in the United States, so I may not have access to all of the relevant sources that could demonstrate notability. Mz7 (talk) 01:43, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
If you are from US then how you know so many thing about education in iran??-SeniorStar (talk) 03:50, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
I don't, which is primarily why I am asking here first rather than perform the merge directly, but we should be able to conduct research on a topic and find more information. Here, I can't find many reliable secondary sources in English, and the article is fairly short. Another concern beyond notability is whether this information would fit better in the context of the "Prominent high schools in Iran" section of this article. Can you find additional reliable sources regarding International Baccalaureate schools in Iran? A quick Google finds this passing mention, this source discusses only one of the schools and briefly about the topic in general. I would be very much open to withdrawing this merge request if there are additional sources I overlooked. Mz7 (talk) 05:10, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
Oh I too tried but could't find more reliable sources. I think your proposal is acceptable. Regards---SeniorStar (talk) 05:20, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
 Article merged. Mz7 (talk) 04:37, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

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