Talk:Ehrenburg

Requested move 3 August 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Elli (talk | contribs) 16:58, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

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Ehrenburg → Ehrenburg (disambiguation) – I came across Ehrenbürg - I know it has diacritics, but aren't these usually ignored in English WP alphabetisation? Wouldn't Ehrenbürg be the primary topic? Laterthanyouthink (talk) 02:07, 3 August 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 06:14, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. Ehrenbürg is fine where it is, but it's simply not the WP:primary topic for Ehrenburg. See pageviews. - Station1 (talk) 04:10, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

• https://wikinav.toolforge.org/?language=en&title=Ehrenburg indicates that aren't a lot of views here in total, which makes it unlikely a single topic is primary over others. Likewise, it shows that readers most commonly navigated to a person and a different place (last month at least), so it's unlikely the hill is primary by usage. --Joy (talk) 07:14, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

  I don't know much about German, but is Ehrenbürg a different spelling? Perhaps it belongs in See also on the DAB in that case? Laterthanyouthink (talk) 07:45, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

  I think it's perfectly appropriate inline because it's common for English readers not to have keyboards that can easily type in the umlaut, so the diacriticless version of the same word is a logical helper for navigation. I'm not really sure why we include it only as "Other uses", though, since it should fit under "Places". --Joy (talk) 19:09, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose per Station1, while the absence of diacritics don't distinguish its clear it isn't primary by usage even assuming almost no one types the diacritics which is probably the case in English but still not primary. Crouch, Swale (talk) 21:13, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
• Comment Just to clarify, the only reason I proposed this is because it's the same name (albeit with diacritics) as the DAB, not because it qualifies for primary topic on grounds of importance, page views, or anything else. Or alternatively what about moving Ehrenbürg to Ehrenbürg (hill)? Laterthanyouthink (talk) 04:18, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose as nominated. Support moving to Ehrenbürg (hill). Diacritics are not enough for disambiguation. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:27, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

  They are sufficient in this case, how likely is it that an average English reader will type in Ehrenbürg but want to end up at some other Ehrenburg? Note also WP:SMALLDETAILS. --Joy (talk) 12:33, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

  How many English readers will type Ehrenbürg (with the umlaut) at all? And SMALLDETAILS is not the be all and end all and does not say what advocates seem to think it does. At the end of the day, clarity rather than dogma is the best policy. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:34, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

  The idea of disambiguation is that it's clear what is ambiguous, and the umlaut is generally considered a fairly visible diacritic, it's not unclear that it's a distinct title. It's also a generally recognizable diacritic, even by English readers who won't type it, because a lot of people heard of German. There's nothing dogmatic about following the applicable guideline, it just makes sense. If we were talking about a small Slavic, Turkic, Arabic, ... diacritic, one that really isn't obvious, you might have a point, but umlauts are the worst choice for this kind of an argument IMO. --Joy (talk) 17:56, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

  I don't think that the average English-speaking reader is that familiar with diacritics, and wouldn't necessarily recognise the word as a different spelling. While many of us understand the difference, I'm not confident that the wider readership do. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 12:58, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

  Be that as it may, it would still not really be an argument for article title changes, but rather for a hatnote at the top of Ehrenbürg to point people at Ehrenburg, disregarding WP:NAMB to help people who might have gotten lost. --Joy (talk) 19:00, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Relist to consider moving to Ehrenbürg (hill) BilledMammal (talk) 06:14, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose alternative move per WP:SMALLDETAILS, while you can't rely on the absence to distinguish the presence does distinguish per Joy unless there are any other uses and the German Wikipedia does the same. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:16, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.