Talk:Elizabeth Morgan/Archive 1

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I would like some feedback

Does anyone think I am being unfair or mean to Dr. Morgan? It is true that I do not bother to list her long CV. She is a practicing surgeon and that speaks for itself. I am not aware that she has any recent scholarly publications. I ask myself if the Yale thing is too much, but Yale strikes me as playing the role of West Point did in the Civil War. Some leaders who roomed together at West Point later faced each other on the field of battle. Amorrow 16:05, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

  • Feedback: The article is good as it stands, your most recent edits that I have looked at aren't really necessary. This article is done - time to move on to another one. =) Xaa 04:26, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
    • Wrongo: A LOT has happened in the past two days and esp. the last few hours. The question is: who gets to shove their template on my work?
      • What are you talking about, "your work."? Did you not see the notice, "If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, do not submit it." at the bottom of every edit box? Stop trying to control this page. If you have any concrete objections to the article as it stands, I'll discuss them. Stop making pointless broad criticisms that really say nothing solid. Superm401 | Talk 08:48, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
        • Uh, work is searching the Internet for info relevant to this historic event. The U.S. Congressional Record and other fun multi-media experiences like that. That took time. What you did, between watching episodes of "Survivor" and stuffing yourself with potato chips, took you 30 minutes. We will use new terms: I did collect-info-work and you did edit-and-cut-work. My work takes longer, by a big factor. There are authority issues also: You grab the position of "professor", grab my work and declare that I am the "TA". Effectively, by cutting out half of it, you just declare it to be "yours". A LOT of TA's know that feeling and worse. Amorrow 22:05, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Come on guys. Do not play that stupid game. The EM page did not come for free. I do not own it, but built up value in it. I am now defending that value as worthy of preservation. Go look at the Blade Runner page and how RoyBoy practically owns it. I have a few suggestions, but otherwise, my attitude is: let him own it. He loves it. He loves being the expert. It is the nerds who care about the subject that provide Wikiepdia with the volunteerism and, if you will, free labor. Synergy. Convergence. If you think about it, that is how the Internet was built. Many, many people putting the effort in to "plug in" and contribute to the growing network. That is why it is powerful now. Amorrow 09:00, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Blade Runner comment moved to its Talk page for edification of RoyBoy.

What do you think Shirley Temple Black will think when she reads MY page on her. She might exclaim: "My God! My God! Somebody finally GETS it! THAT is what I have been waiting 50 years to read!".

You want to play this "Survivor"-level voting games with me? Then Wikipedia will never get beyond Survivor-level quality in its content we all know what that menas: it will suck and something else, maybe Microsoft, will eat Wikipedia's lunch. Sounds like fun? Yuck!

Why do you stuffed shirts not have a sense of humor? Try this one, which I created from scratch:

Xaa: You are very, very mean. You go and vfd the Facts of Reproduction . You make me cry. I will show you: Michael Sylvester See how that works? Laser-sharp focus of Wikipedia make him all crispy. Even I had forgotten it, mostly. Now, notify, pretty please, notify me when you vfd any of the pages I created. Xaa: You make me cry really bad. You make me feel like J. Edgar Hoover, but I dont wanna feel like him. You are so mean. I am gonna play less Wikipedia until I tell him I am sorry. He never saw it coming.

The take-home message is: You have got to get certain things right, or the whole thing sucks.

I added only one line to: "Inside Deep Throat" I make a nice reference and ya think you can just go delete, huh? Here it is in living color:

See what I mean? They think they can just rip it out and shove us all back down to Survivor-level quality

You see what I mean? Of course, that humor belongs here. I noticed that nobody has removed the Chuck Colson humor, probably because it is highly informative. If the people in charge are not resilient enough to maintain a sense of humor(User:Jimbo? Hello? Are you listening? Com'on send your delegate to me!), then Wikipedia will suck, eat shit and die. It will not be my fault for lack of trying to help it. It will be because too many of the people in charge watch too much "Survivor".

Amorrow 23:29, 7 August 2005 (UTC)


A LOT of issues

This brings up a lot of issues about what Wikipedia wants to be. It is exactly about freedom of the press, which is sometimes humorously characterized as "Aflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted". Let us review:

Colson: Had and has a massively public life. I could go and make page about all his organizatoins, but I do not want to because I do not like what he is doing. I am sure that what you would say is that if I want to put the GIS coords in, put it in the organization page. See the problem? So I target the individual leader instead. Crass, to sure, but GIS is just a bunch of numbers. It is intrisically NPOV. Anyway, the information is not accurate enough: I have not the reconnaissance on the building to find out where he sits (it would be very easy to do). Anyway, anyone with enough resources and clout to obtain a GBU-31 or whatever to go drop it on him are going to do their OWN reconnaissance and targetting. Why am I dwelling on this? Because the numbers ARE good enough to go browse the area. The important question here is: Is that too invasive? It is not their home address. It is not some private phone number. GIS does not respect ANY boundaries, physical or social. Is it too invasive? It is a VERY important question.

Ask yourself this question: Hypothetical case: You run a web site out of your home. It can be about recipies for baking bread for all I care. Do I get to identify your GIS coords? Did you lose your expectation to privacy? It is a trickier question than first glance might suggest.

Why did I go over and give Angela, an innocent bystander in that discussion, that psychic sucker-punch? Ultimately, it was because I did not have break any rules to do it. The answer is not to knee-jerk and make a bunch of new arbitrarily-enforced rules about it. The answer is to think hard about what it is that you want Wikipedia to be. I am not sure that you recognize how powerful it is.

Have read Elizabeth Morgan? Look at what I am doing. I am provide (targeting?) anyone who supported her who is still available for targeting, include two House Representatives. Go right ahead and take their GIS info out. All I did was make it easier for the interest reader. Could this inspire some crazy non-custodial father to do a Charles Whitman and take out a few of these targets? I guess, but I sure as hell am not going to be that jerk. If someone else did, would it be my fault? I made it easier for them, but the phone book makes it easier for crazy people to go hunt other people as well.

So NOW you can see how powerful Wikiepdia can be. You can use it to track people. If they had a public life and wielded a bunch of power, is that fair to do so? How about "smaller" people? Where do you draw the line? Not an easy question to answer in a free society.

I do not want to be focus of attention on this matter. To save you the trouble, I will go and remove all the GIS on individual people right now (unless you want to "build some case" against me, but why bother? I can just say I made an editorial error and then I fixed it), because I do not really care THAT much. The technology exists and I did not invent it. Wikipedia is growing up and it has to decided on its own what it wants to be. If I have caused you to think new thoughts, and see what I see, than I have done my job.

Dumbing down

Several examples (if you make me, I will go and find them) in fiction present this idea: For an easy-to-manage democracy, you take all the people of little talent and help them, and you take the talented people and you impair them. Everyone is a lot more equal and the People, overall are more uniform and manageable.

I feel that the page had intense value. A high and unique amount of detail. There was enough detail there for most people to see "she lied". Now it has been dumbed down and the unpleasant possibilty is much more obscure. How nice. What a relief. Now I do not have to think about it. Vanilla ice cream, rather than something thought-provoking. Situation comedies rather than hard-hitting documentaries. Yummy. Comments? Amorrow 09:17, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes. The point of this page is not to convince people she lied, EVEN IF SHE DID. The point of this page is to provide the truth, as best we know it. IMHO, in the case, we can't know the truth. We certainly don't have any way to prove there was no molestation. Therefore, we must tell what we know, keeping in mind above all NPOV. Superm401 | Talk 09:29, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
The take-home message is: if you are a G.D. c*nt, lie your way into full custody. It works. The system will never, ever actually force you to share 'em anwyay. We will just have a "vote", like on "Survivor" and you just smile into the camera and you win!!! That silly jury, oh, they where just, uh, WRONG or somethin' Amorrow 16:05, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

You all have 24 hours to work out the issues

24 hours. Work it out, if you can. Otherwise, the page goes back to my last edit. Have fun. Amorrow 09:18, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

You don't have the right to make ultimatums. Wikipedia is a collaborative effort. As an outsider to this page, it seems debate over this article has gone a bit out of control. Exactly what issues do you feel need to be worked out? Superm401 | Talk 09:28, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
Y'all still got 24 hours to figure out what to do about me. Good luck! Amorrow 10:07, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
I don't want to do anything "about you." I'm fine with the page as it is now. Given the contention here, if you're planning to make major changes, please post them on talk first so they can be discussed. We can agree on how to include them in the article. Superm401 | Talk 10:24, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
Yeah. Right. I work three months to build it up, they they 30 minutes to knock it down and, right-away, we call it even-steven. Yeah, sure. F. U. ! Amorrow 16:01, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
You don't own this article. Nobody owns any article on Wikipedia. If you blind revert to your own version and ignore the consensus of other editors, you are violating Wikipedia policies. If you want to write something and not have other editors change it, get a blog or something, as Wikipedia is not set up that way. From the long rambling outbursts you've posted here it looks like you are in desperate need of a break anyway. Your behavior appears harassing, uncivil, and extremely uncooperative. I'd recommend taking a good, long look at where you are right now and decide if all this is really worth it. DreamGuy 03:41, August 8, 2005 (UTC)
Dream on DreamGuy: I am NOT making up any rules. I am just "taking my turn at it". Are you gunna try to stop my from taking my turn? I was certainly VERY patient and let everyone else take their turn. Come on. I just have a few of my favorite changes to make. Amorrow 05:11, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
DreamGuy: The Jewel sent me that email, it became a VITAL historical document. I do not even know if Groner (because I have not read his book) knew that Chucky baby fell in LOVE with Dr. Morgan's story (at least) and did all the string-pulling on all the puppets to create the "Get out of jail free card". He was THE MAN. He was the STARTING POINT of the whole damn thing. Who knew? I do not even know, but I do get to talk to the guy's closest henchm- Uh, I mean, "associate" at the time. Cool!

A simple demonstration about free socities

I added ONE line. Just ONE line. My line.

Well, that is gone also now. Shucks.... I shuld jest start charging for my copy of that thing. What is that phone number for the Democratic parties in Davis' and Wolf's distrcit agin?

Now, do you not all feel like you have adhered to your youthful idealism? Amorrow 09:56, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

I honestly don't know what you're referring to when you speak of "free societies" and "youthful idealism" in this context. However, the page you linked to is a mirror of our article. It provides no additional information. There is no justification for it being there; hence, I removed it. Superm401 | Talk 10:26, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
Wrongo. What you have here now is just the marshmallow "Wikipedia-ize" page that is the result of Democracy. The not-quit-freedeom stuff. Oh yes, there used to be something worth reading there, then it got all waterred down. Yawn. People will just click on through now to the GOOD stuff. The FREEDOM stuff. What the heck do think this is? "Survivor" or somethin? That is TV. Get it? TV!!! Our forefather did not fight the Brits. and then again for the niggers to have less-than-freedom. They fought for FREEDOM!!! Com'on I'll take ya on, ten-at-a-time!!! Amorrow 15:58, 7 August 2005 (UTC)


What goes next?

You know goes next boys, do you not? It is the Groner book. Why? Because it is not about Elizabeth, it is about Hilary and that can go on the Hilary Morgan page, if we ever create it. Then will add all of Liz's fine academic degrees and one of her realy, really sexy, pretty photos. The one showing her pretty young face and her lithe torso. Oh, I want to just pet your tits a little Liz. I wanna kiss you anna mouth. Oh, come on. Stick your tougue... Come on. Just one little... Amorrow 18:41, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Let me help you with your next patient. We will just hold the knife together, that's right. Draw it nicely across the incision site. Oh! That is so nice. A little bit of blood. What's the procedure? A breat implant. How nice. Amorrow 19:53, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

How did she do it?

She kept on changing the scene. She would insist: "Oh, I just have to have my way right here right now. Gimme it." Any brave little Lizzy would get her Mommy and her Daddy and show that bad man what for. And then she would run away. And she would say the exact same thing somewhere else where nobody KNEW what she had done at that old place. Until nasty, nasty people like Andy would ruin it all and say: "Hey! Waitta second here... Didnha I see you over there...? Ana...ana... you said getting your way was a real, real special one-time thingy. Awhhhh, you're just cheating!" Amorrow 18:46, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

User pages and stuff

Of course, it occurred to me in the pathetic game of Chess, that I could just create a sub-page of my User page to point to, but it occurred to me that someone already thought of that and wrote some policy like: pages do not point back to User pages. If not, Quick! Quick! Write the policy! Write policy! so we can go back to playing Gotcha! if anyone broken any rule.

Oh, yeah, here is what I am talking about: User:Amorrow/Not so nice Elizabeth . Are you feeling much better now? Amorrow 19:25, 7 August 2005 (UTC)


We need more Aha! moments

Now, look at this page: Critical mass

I remember when a guy who used to work at Oak Ridge told me this thing. I was a graduate of RPI, but I never knew this thing. Now, we all can. That is why its the U-235 and Plutonium, not the nuclear "secrets" that matter. You have a slight chance of controling the fissile material. The information? You cannot control that.

This page: Facts of Reproduction. The most sensitive moment between parent and child. I hope the parents read it first. That is their job. Why not "Facts of Life"? Because there is a TV show by that name in the way. There is some overlap with "Sex Education", but this page documents that very, very special moment. If you do not like this, then look away or, if you are an ostrich, then stick you head in the sand. Probably a bad idea if you do not relish the task of helping your 16-year-old daughter to the clinic to abort your own grandchild where they take the pieces that was supposed to be a bundle of joy and instead it is a bundle of... well you get the idea. If you had only REMEMBERED to tell her about that stuff when she ask at 14 and you said "let us not talk about that yet". And if she is 25 years old and still does not get it, let her read the page on her own. You already blew it.


Folks, folks, folks: It is just information. If you do not like it, look away. It is the opinion crap about how great "Survivor" is that we are going to cut. Amorrow 00:45, 8 August 2005 (UTC)


I am current getting the page ready for this girl: Deanna Rix

You all think I am just oogling her. I had an Aha! moment recently. I had no idea that boy and girls wrestle now because I went this a Catholic school system where they _still_ have some issues with it.

Now look at my lazy, stupid fat-ass style: Three sentences and three links. Did read books? No. She has not written any. Did I read the aricles? No. I am a slow reader. I just have the vaguest idea that she is a good, inspirational story for young girls. I do it clean, pretty nice, but I note WHY she is interesting (for my own sexual gratification? No.): because maybe a LOT of girls do not know that it is OK to for full-contact with a boy in this setting. I am an adult and I did not know.

How did Mr. Black (Shirley's husband, GRHS) not ever see her movies? I tried to explain he was raised in some crazy-strict religious thing, but Michael L. Kaufman did us all the great favor of whacking that, and the reader is left wondering if he was a retard or somethin' . I welcome everyboyd to go and write it better. I will try to add it to some categories.

When I am allowed to raise my hand, and when called upon, ask the embarrasing but sincere question (that I really, really do NOT know the answer to) just because that is what I wanna know? Amorrow 03:33, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Shirley Temple Black

Now, I really beat the dead horse about the Linda Lovelace page name. I failed and I learned my lesson. You cannot rename the page because of the rules. Instead, you plow through the text and change the way the person is referred to INSIDE the page. Good enough for me and anyone who knew the person. I learned my lesson and I did not waste one moment trying to change ST to STB. I changed. I got used to it. I got used to the rules.

ST: You see how I took it upon myslef to change the emphasis and style of the ST page. Is it long list of movies anymore? No. It is WHY and HOW did she shove out all those films? It is because, when she went into work every day, she was ready to do her job. They probably made funny out-takes back then but it was not the style back then to put them into the film, like they do with Mary-Kate and Ashley. Still, they made sure that it was fun and they succeeded.

Hollywood did not use up and eat ST. Now time will. But she did some stuff after the movie thing. And she changed her name. Recognize that. Adapt. Change. Learn. Keep it NPOV. Those are the rules. Obey the rules, and then you can freely get the facts as you see fit. I trust your judgment. But I will occassionaly make fun of you anyway to test you. To measure you. I bounce my joke off you and, if you do not deal with it well, you provide me with data about you that I probably could not get if we were face-to-face. You should value your privacy more than that. Grow up.

Time will comsume ST. Did you read the text of Dies Irae? It says the DAY will destroy the Earth, not God or some bomb. Time will do it. In Medival paintings, Death has a sickle and an hour glass. It is only in stupid, modern cartoons that he SWINGS the sickle. The REAL Death just quietly holds out the hour glass only. Let us stop wasting our time and figure this shit out.

Amorrow 01:15, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

My nasty jokes

OK, OK. I am a joker. But what do I joke about? Big egos. People with no sense of humor or people who are getting dramatic on me. Look at how I vicious tear into In questa reggia to deflate it. It is the maximum-bitch mother-of-all-mother-in-law aria's of all time. Calaf gets his hands on her later. Listen to that thing. I LOVE IT! Great music and her ego finally gets bitch-slapped and what does she do in return? She LOVES him (the last word of the Opera). My advice: Stop getting so dramatic on me. Think about it.

If you just cannot possibly stomach the GIS, I will think about it. What is Wikipeida for? Do you want to own the data or guide the user to the data (I mean all recorded data of Civilization, not the damn GIS). What does Wikipedia want to be? Almost no links? How can you justify the meta-wiki stuff? Whatever "feels right" for the individual. Whatever is an "approved site" or "approved thingy". Thinks about it.

I am still going to put the page back, just so that I can say I did so. Undo it again a millisecond later. I do not really care. I care about Wikipedia policy and what it will become or what it will fail to become.

Page locking and stuff

I am going to change the page because I declared that I would do it up front. In this silly chess game, it occurs to me that you might try to go and lock the page. Think about it: If you do so, you will do more damage than good. I am not a vandal. I just have a point of view because I did a LOT of work. You wanna know who I know about Maxwelll? I ACCIDENTALLY met him on the street! We just started talking. I mention Morgan and he says: "Oh, yeah. I covered her trail. I say next to Jan Smith most of the time." Then he says something like that all the press had pretty much come the the conclusion that she did not tell the truth. But they had to sit there and shut their mouths and just watch her get her "Get Out of Jail Free" Monopoly (game) card. We all know what that looks like. Just like a lot of Black men get the "Go to Jail, Go Directly to Jail.." card. It really is that stupid and they have to sit there and watch it and stay NPOV.

Privileges and stuff

Do I really expect Morgan to repudiate the Act. No unless I take a crowbar to her, ana..ana. that would be...illegal!!! No, no, that will not work. That would be breaking the rules. That would be...wrong! Judge Dixon woudl be very disappointed in me. Maybe we can just haul her in front of the Board of Medical Examiners. THEY might have some fun with her. THEY have options, like suspending her medical license for a while, just to teach her a lesson. Of course, somebody has to point the "big picture" out to them first. They want the details. They can be shown a crappy Wikipedia page and they will say: Yawn!

You think I just wanna get her. Wrongo. I want Society to LEARN! To turn off the TV and LEARN something. You stupid young men are hotheads sometimes. You see the info on the screen and you LEAP into action. Maybe computer stuff needs that sometimes, but not for this stuff. It is just a page. A little lamb-kin page. It will be there tomorrow. Nasty old Andy will change it and us nice young men will change it back. Kind of likes a Pas de Deux. You step. I step. You step. I step. Beautiful. Ballet. Art.

The Three Ministers (just a little before O tigre! O tigre!) 

O mondo pieno di pazzi innamorati!
O wolrd full of madmen in love!

Then then review the many guys that Turandot managed to "rush", i.e. pressure into giving the three riddles a try before they were ready. Oopsy for them.

Please be very nice to Dr. Foretich

I have talk to him. OK, for about 90 seconds or so. Months ago. He is a dentist, you know. It was very nice. He does not hate Lizzy. I do not really hate Lizzy. He got to marry her and stuff. If he got hit by a car tomorrow, I would not cry, but he seemed very nice. Through the beautiful act of copulation (details omitted for the sake of decorum), they created Hilary, who later changed her name to Ellen. That is SO nice! Then something went wrong. Whaaaaaa. He has handled this all with maturity. Unlike when my child was taken from me. I went all klablooie. Anyway...

Dr. Foretich, from is historical point of view, is a speck of dust. Forget about him. He probably wants you to, but more likely, he does not care one way or the other. You wanna go get him? Good Luck. He will just call the cops if you show up at his office. As I recall, the cops there now stock hollow point bullets if anyone gets too nasty. Amorrow 06:02, 8 August 2005 (UTC)



John G. Roberts, Jr.

OK boys. Look at John G. Roberts, Jr. . I added link. It was very, very naughty of me. It make everyone so upset.

Can we keep it anyway? If we do it the "Suvivor" way and do not cooperate, then dat nice Bushy guy get to cake-walk into that nice Seat over dere.

Remember the Dies Irae Word By Word. See how important that seat for the Judge is? Very important. Oh yea. And who wrote that? Some dummy from 800 years ago. So passé and yuck. Get it out of my face, it is so boring! Amorrow 11:30, 8 August 2005 (UTC)


Proposal: Take EM page out of Surgeon catagory

Nobody remembers EM as a surgeon, that I know of. She does not even cure disease: she is doin breast implants and stuff in funkin' Washington D.C., which next to Hollywood, is the most image-concious place on Earth.

Am I doing this to trample on her M.D. ? None of your damn business: This is about Wikipedia, not Andrew Morrow.

What category to put her in? Child Custody Cases. She is THE child custody case. Otherwise, just admit that Wikipedia is not ready for this oddball case and just vfd the thing. As far as her books as stuff, do we really want our little girls to aspire to fuckin' stuffing breast implant into each other and gettin' Daddy to get a dimple on that chin of his? I do not think so.

Another request: Get your best people to make the perfect "star profile". El primo. The model for all the others. Pick several dead stars: Cary Grant, etc. Use your best people. Define the model.

NOW: What to do about the ODDBALL cases like Shirley Temple or Linda Borman (Yeah, Stepin Fetchit is screwed: because it is Black. I am resigned to that). Wadda gonna do for those pages? Just play the tug-of-war you got goin' now and end up with just a chewed up battlefield with all kinds of human parts scattered here and there? You just gotta think about these things. Where is the leadership when we need it?

One more thing: Wikipedia is the BRAIN - mechanics. data. communication. Wikipedia users are the MIND - in our visions and insights, we can do whatever the fuck we want. If some insights turn out to be TRUE, we kin put em in da brain, I hope.

Amorrow 12:02, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

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