Talk:Elohist

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Benjamin[edit]

E is theorized to have been composed by collecting together the various stories and traditions concerning biblical Israel and its associated tribes (Dan, Napthali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulon, Ephraim, Manesseh, Benjamin),

Wasn't Benjamin (by happenstance, admittedly) a tribe of Judah? john k 23:11, 21 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The territory of Benjamin was divided between both kingdoms. Culturally, however, Benjamin seems to have been more akin to the north, as Saul and his son Ishbaal, although from the tribe of Benjamin, are seen as "northern" monarchs.--Rob117 01:20, 26 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Elohim[edit]

Glad to see that you don't reference the "Elohim" article, which does not reference any historical or cultural traditions outside of the OT. -- LKS 5/29/06

Aren't Aaronite priests and Levitical priests the same thing? You say that E treats God as a human like figure, but doesnt E treat god more as a transcendental figure?

There were two semi-rival groups of Levitical priesthood, the "Mushite" presthood from Shiloh and Tel Dan, and the "Aaronite" presthood from Jerusalem. John D. Croft (talk) 08:07, 5 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

documentary hypothesis[edit]

"This article describes the opinion of the documentary hypothesis without taking into account alternative opinions; see the documentary hypothesis article for details on disputes over this theory." Someone recently added an alternative opinion, so now the article contradicts itself. Leadwind 23:04, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Furthermore, there is no analogous statement at the Jahwist page. Delmlsfan 15:11, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sacrifice of Isaac[edit]

The article currently claims

In the Elohist work, Isaac does not ever appear again after this story, and the story appears to imply that Isaac was sacrificed.

but provides no citation for this claim.

I have been unable to find a translation of the relevant text, but I have found two scholarly sources that seem to indicate the above claim is incorrect.

Source 1:

but the Elohist spoils his pathetic narrative by a close which, for modern taste, could hardly be more prosaic. 'And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold, a ram caught in the thicket by his horns, and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt-offering instead of his son' (p2178)

Source 2:

[Under the Elohist heading]

Abraham obeys until the very last moment when he is instructed by an angel to substitute a ram for Isaac. (p851) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Topherwhelan (talk • contribs) 06:51, 11 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

DJP Sequence[edit]

The lead mentions a "DJP Sequence" without explaning what it is. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 18:38, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have expanded "DJP sequence" to read "Deuteronomist-Jahwist-Priestly source sequence" with wikilinks for each which should make it a little clearer what is meant, and if not, it should make it easier for them to figure it out. However, I used hyphens here, and I'm not certain if WP:MOS prefers n-dashes or other for this type of usage, so that might need updating. I also wikilinked Horeb to Mount Horeb considering that many people make a clear distinction between the two mounts even though many others consider the two mounts to be the same. The Horeb article is a decent length, although it may still need a bit of expansion (the extra length of the Biblical Mount Sinai article, in comparison to Horeb, is mostly due to a long section speculating on its possible location). — al-Shimoni (talk) 04:56, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Elohist-Jahwist differences[edit]

I'm moving the below text out of the article, as it's been unsourced since it was added in 2005, and parts of it are dubious (see the point raised earlier on this talk page about the sacrifice of Isaac, for example). I'll leave it here in case anyone wants to find sources for it. DanFromAnotherPlace (talk) 13:42, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Extended content

The Elohist's story begins after Abram (Abraham) has begun migration, with the wife–sister narrative that is also present in the Jahwist tale.

After that, the first major story about Abram is that of the sacrifice of Isaac. In the Elohist work, Isaac never appears again after the conclusion, and the story strongly implies that Isaac was truly sacrificed. The Jahwist, on the other hand, does not mention this tale of Isaac's sacrifice at all, although he does mention Isaac extensively. When the presumed redactor came to edit together their writings, Isaac's continued presence would thus need to be explained. The text attributed to the redactor presents an escape clause, the Lord's allowing Abram to sacrifice a ram in place of his son, allowing Isaac to live. Understandably, given the Elohist's narrative so far, the next tale the Elohist offers brings the chance for Abram to have other children.

While the Jahwist presented an anthropomorphic God who could walk through the Garden of Eden looking for Adam and Eve, the Elohist frequently involves angels. For example, it is the Elohist version of the tale of Jacob's ladder in which there is a ladder of angels with God at the top, leading to Jacob later dedicating the place as Beth-El (House of God), whereas in the Jahwist tale, it is a simple dream in which God is simply above the location, without the ladder or angels. Likewise, the Elohist describes Jacob actually wrestling with God.

Further into the text, the Elohist exhibits a noticeably positive attitude to the main northern tribes—those of Joseph. Unlike the Jahwist, the Elohist contains stories of the political position of the Joseph tribes: the birth of Benjamin, and the pre-eminence of Ephraim. Also, whereas the Jahwist portrays Joseph as the victim of an attempted rape in the tale of Potiphar's wife, which would have been mildly humiliating to the Joseph tribes, the Elohist instead portrays Joseph as an interpreter of dreams—as one who can understand God. This pre-occupation with northern concerns extends to the Elohist explaining the northern cultic object known as the Nehushtan.

With regard to the Exodus from Egypt, the Elohist presents a more elaborate tale than the Jahwist. Firstly, the Elohist version expands on the supposed cruelty of the Egyptians by presenting them as asking for difficult work such as bricks without straw.

Secondly, whereas the Jahwist version of the Plagues of Egypt involves Moses acting only as an intercessor to ask God to stop each plague that God has wrought, the Elohist instead presents Moses as threatening the Pharaoh, and then bringing the plague down on the Egyptians himself. To the Elohist, the threat of the Angel of Death (recalled in the holiday of Passover) is enough to cause the Egyptians to chase the Israelites out, whereas the Jahwist presents the Egyptians as reluctantly giving in, and then changing their mind, and chasing after them to bring them back.

Where the Jahwist simply presents its version of the Ten Commandments as the law given by God at Sinai, the Elohist instead presents the more extensive Covenant Code. The Elohist then goes on to deal with how such an extensive code can be used in practice, by using a relative of Moses, Jethro, as a mouthpiece to explain the reason for the appointment of judges. To enforce the code further, the Elohist describes the process of the law code being read out to the people.