Talk:Europe '72

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Isn't that...[edit]

Isn't that the back of the album cover for Europe '72 that they're using there?

http://www.dead.net/archives/1972/artwork/album-cover-europe-72-lp-front http://www.dead.net/archives/1972/artwork/album-cover-europe-72-lp-back —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.118.149.56 (talk) 12:22, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you look at, and open, the Europe '72 LP, it becomes clear that the rainbow and truckin' foot image is the front cover and the ice cream kid image is the back cover. The LP is a three part gatefold with the rainbow and foot on the front. The rainbow and foot was also used as the front cover for the CD. The links you provided show that dead.net has things backwards. But it is slightly ambiguous, because the front and back covers don't have any writing on them. I'm wondering if the album was deliberately designed so that it's unclear which is the front and which is the back. — Mudwater (Talk) 19:51, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
To follow on from what Mudwater said about a decade ago, I've got the original LP and it is confusing, because there is a "special 3LP set" sticker, but if you put that the right way up, it shows the Truckin' Fool, whereas putting it the other way up with the Truckin' Foot on the front, the text on the inside part of the gatefold is then the right way up. I've added a FUR image for the "fool" picture as it's sometimes confused as the front or indeed is used as such on reissues. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:45, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I like it! — Mudwater (Talk) 22:46, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If you like that, the pub four doors down the road from the studio was blasting some cheesy dance music into the street tonight, so I decided to play "One More Saturday Night" Paris Olympia 1972-05-03 at full volume to deal with that.... Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 22:57, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Europe '72.jpg[edit]

Image:Europe '72.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 21:09, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have added an appropriate fair use rationale to the album cover image, which is therefore no longer subject to speedy deletion. — Mudwater 22:20, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Some body needs to write something about this.[edit]

They are releasing the whole tour on CD. This should be mentioned here and possibly have an appropriate article page created. You can read about it here: http://www.dead.net/features/release-info/holy-s-it-s-complete-europe-72-box-over-60-discs —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.85.127.222 (talk) 03:17, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Done. — Mudwater (Talk) 14:09, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Europe '72/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: MarioSoulTruthFan (talk · contribs) 11:21, 11 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]


Hello, I'll be reviewing this article over the next weekend. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 11:21, 11 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox[edit]

  • The single released should be added her.
Done, I think. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 18:06, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why the use of the caption?
What caption? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 18:06, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"The "Truckin' Boot" stepping over Europe" MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 21:09, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Aha, it should be the "Truckin' Foot", as that is what other sources call it. It's mentioned here as the cover has a distinctive name, plus there is sometimes confusion of whether the "Foot" or the "Fool" (see later in the article) is the front and the back cover, and both are iconic enough to be turned into merchandise. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 13:15, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Done

Lead[edit]

  • tour of Western Europe in → not in the body of the article
Fixed, I don't think it's original research to say that the UK, Denmark, (then) West Germany and France are all in Western Europe (although with Brexit around the corner), who knows Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 18:06, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
For me it's fine, it doesn't matter at the time the album was released they were still Western Europe. I mean they will still be Europe, just not with the free transit the other countries have. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 21:17, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • who died shortly after its release. → same as previous
I must have removed it as being unsourced / off-topic, anyway back in. (Again, I don't think it's OR to say that March 1973 is "shortly after" November 1972). Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 18:06, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It's not OR. I don't think it's off-topic, it's the reason they need a new Keyboardist, unless he left the band. Then again, if ther eis no source remove it...not the first time I come across something lke this it's always tricky. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 21:17, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I've cleaned this up; specifically 1972-05-26 was the last show Pigpen sang at, 1972-06-17 was the only other show he turned up to, then he was too ill to perform. As an aside, I think there's a long standing joke along the lines of "you know you're a Deadhead when your record collection hasn't got any names, just dates...." Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 13:18, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Done

Tour[edit]

  • The last paragraph of the "Tour" section is partly irrelevant, partly misleading, and partly inaccurate. The rest of the article would be better without it. Which guitar Jerry Garcia was playing is not relevant. Garcia, who had been playing bluegrass since the early '60s, was influenced by country and traditional American music, but not "increasingly" so. The same is true of the band as a whole, so country and traditional was not a "new direction" for any of them. They initially formed as a jugband doing traditional and blues. "I Know You Rider," (a traditional song, played in folk circles of the '60s) was one of songs that they included in their earliest repertoire (https://archive.org/details/gd65-11-03.sbd.vernon.9044.sbeok.shnf). In 1970, they released two albums that turned away from psychedelia to country (Workingman's Dead and American Beauty), and also performed acoustic sets of country (e.g., https://archive.org/details/gd1970-05-02.BEAR.gems.120081.flac16) while touring with the New Riders of the Purple Sage, so Europe '72 does not represent a new direction. Also, as written, the paragraph implies that Garcia wrote "Jack Straw," but it was written Bob Weir and Robert Hunter (Indeed, the paragraph mentions lyrics of some of the songs, but doesn't mention Hunter, the lyricist, at all). The paragraph also implies that the "China Cat Sunflower/I Know You Rider" medley was relatively new to the band, but, in fact, they had been performing that medley since 1969 and it was a concert staple (over 100 performances by 1972: http://www.gratefulseconds.com/2016/01/china-less-riders-and-rider-less-china.html).
  • had increased → had grown
I've gone with "As the band became more popular", less passive voice Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 18:06, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • had likewise grown → had increased (sounds like they were older of age)
I've copyedited this sentence generally, to make it more clearer. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 18:06, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Bickershaw Festival on May 7 (Kreutzmann's birthday) → was it on purpose? Or is this just by chance?
Well, this is not a particularly reliable source (though you can listen to the show here and I believe it's warts and all), but the group performed an impromptu "Happy Birthday" mid-set. I think that's too much information, so just trimming it down to "Kreutzmann's birthday" is enough. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 18:06, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The canonical script, User:GregU/dashes.js doesn't change anything when I run on it. I can only assume therefore that the dashes in this article are okay. I am happy to let The Rambling Man be ultimate arbitrator on all things dash related (they crop up far more in FLCs, from my experience). Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 18:06, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Fine by me if he is. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 21:21, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Looking at the history, it seems he popped in this evening in response to the ping, fixed a few dashes, then left. He's not called the "dash ninja" for nothing you know. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:29, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Done

Recording[edit]

  • multi-disk album of the Dead's past five Warner Bros. releases, → multi-disk album of the Dead's after five releases on Warner Bros. (needs to flow)
Changed to "the third live album by the Dead in as many years" (specifically, the release date of Europe 72 was five days short of being exactly three years after Live/Dead Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:13, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "rested on live performance" → rested on live performances
Copyedited generally Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:13, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "leading Weir to collaborate with John Perry Barlow in the future" → what future, during this live album or future releases??
Everything afterwards, clarified Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:13, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "in studio form save for a studio version of "One More Saturday Night" → in studio form, except for a studio version of "One More Saturday Night"
I think, per the principles in WP:ASTONISHME, we can just go for "in studio form, except "One More Saturday Night"" here Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:13, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I guess, but it doesn't sound as good to me. It's not clear and direct like it should be, but I can accept it. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 21:39, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Done

Cover[edit]

  • Fine.

Release[edit]

  • "It was also the last to feature Pigpen. Several songs on which he sang lead were retired after the tour's finale at the Lyceum. Pigpen left the band shortly after the tour owing to ill health, dying the following March" → is this in the right section? Shouldn't it be on a background section?
Ah yes, I did put it in. As above, moved to the "background" section Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:13, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Done

Reissues[edit]

See above comment Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:13, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Done

Reception[edit]

  • It has since become one of the most successful Grateful Dead albums in terms of sales → how many copies?
Added a bit Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:13, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • music critics → link to music journalism
I think that's a bit too common a link myself. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:14, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe you are right this article has already enough wikilinks. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 21:24, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Professional ratings table should be here.
Moved Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:33, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Done

Track listing[edit]

  • Fine.

2001/2003 reissue[edit]

  • Use the Track listing template along with the headline "2001/2003 reissue" along with a collapsed column.
How does that work? I haven't a clue, sorry. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:18, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I have subsequently acquired said clue and sorted this out. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 13:10, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I was about to do this for you. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 22:07, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Done

Personnel[edit]

  • Taken from the sleeve notes: → Taken from the sleeve notes of Europe '72, Warner Bros:
I think that's over-detailed, certainly I've put in "taken from the sleeve notes" on other GAs without problems. The AV media notes source should clarify where it's from (it's specifically from my vinyl copy I've got right here, but that's going off at a tangent....) Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:19, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Done

Charts[edit]

I'd personally go for Physical Graffiti as a starting block (which passed GA recently) which has a far wider selection of charts and certifications; I think we should at least have a few more chart stats if we can get them; although the Dead were a cult band in the UK and didn't sell in the globe-buggering way that Zep did, they were commercially successful enough in the early 70s to get charting albums. Binksternet, you're good at chart stats IIRC, can you help? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:32, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Wrong guy! Thanks for thinking of me, though. Binksternet (talk) 20:57, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Every time I turn up to album that is worth improving to GA (except this one, it seems), the charts and certifications all seem to be complete, well-formatted and verifiable. I just assumed it was one guy running around doing them all - obviously that was just me being naive. :-/ Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:00, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I've put in the proper charts templates - can't find anything beyond the US at the moment (also see below) Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:44, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Certifications[edit]

  • Please use the Certification Table.
I'm more concerned that the RIAA certification is a dead link (must have missed that) and the Wayback Machine doesn't seem to have a suitable archived copy. I'll have to go and have a look at this whole section and redo it with other sources. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:24, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That's because they modified their website, if you use the table it will always be able to get to the certification. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 21:12, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ooh, that's a cool template! Where's the "like" button? Anyway, fixed. I can't find any sales figures beyond the US, which does kind of tie up with my understanding that the Grateful Dead were primarily a cult band (at least elsewhere) whose reputation lies in their live concerts, and not so much in their albums (although I'd say for an introduction to the band, Europe '72 is a pretty good starting point). Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:44, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Done

References[edit]

  • Wikilink Robert Christgau and Consequence of Sound.
Done Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:44, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Done

Overall[edit]

I've look at all the issues now, but more work is needed, in particular I think the "Charts" and "Certifications" sections need to be nuked and paved. Shouldn't take too long. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:47, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Take your time, I will look at the other sections. BTW shouldn't ""One More Saturday Night" be a single as well? "One More Saturday Night", which came out as a single to promote the tour" MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 21:40, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Tricky one that, technically it wasn't the Dead but Bob Weir solo (IIRC there was never a studio version of OMSN released under the group name), although all the group (except Pig) were playing on it. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:41, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
But if this article is only about the Dead, why does a band member has his solo work in here? MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 12:29, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It's a bit of an oddball case - more importantly, the A-side isn't the Europe '72 version and the B-side is from another album. It's worth mentioning in context of the tour, but it's not appropriate to put it in the "singles" box, in my view.

I think, following that, that all the other comments have been addressed - can you check? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:54, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I made small changes, can you take a look and if you agree on such? MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 01:23, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, that's all just straightforward gnoming stuff, no issue from me. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 09:37, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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