Talk:European People's Party Group/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Number of member states

It is written "the European Council, where 14 out of 27 heads of state", but there are no more 27 heads of state but 28 (since July 1st 2013) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.122.255.87 (talk) 15:52, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Untitled

Are the Tories members of the EPP? john 04:33, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

No. They are members of the ED. -- Kaihsu 10:56, 2004 Jun 15 (UTC)

So what is the difference between the European Democrats and the European Democratic Party? --Henrygb 09:09, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

they are associated members and do not have to follow the epp wip. also isnt the logo of the epp-ed a heart with the 12 stars within it?? Wild ride 04:27, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Associate members and observators

What is the distinction between the status of Associate member and the statute of observator ?

Revas 01/06/05

i think associate members of the ED and observers are parties in non-eu states but are members of the council of europe Wild ride

UUP

well in that case why not have the conservatives preficed with England, Scotland and Wales as they don't run in Northern Ireland? there is no reason for the inclusion of Northern Ireland there. Traditional unionist 15:02, 7 June 2006 (UTC) Yes there is. I agree with it, it mirrors the division used for the Belgian parties. —Nightst a llion (?) 17:03, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

template for grouping?

I just noticed that I added a party template for a parliamentary group, probably not the best format. I am going to leave it for the time being however, because maybe it's a good idea to have a template for groupings as well? Any ideas anyone...? Gryffindor 07:26, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, I've reverted for now, as EPP-ED certainly ain't a party. ;) —Nightst a llion (?) 21:34, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Problems

Someone has to fix this box. Thank you. --Rokbas 19:57, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:European Peoples Party–European Democrats logo.png

Image:European Peoples Party–European Democrats logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:European Peoples Party–European Democrats logo.png

Image:European Peoples Party–European Democrats logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot 09:56, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

The coalition no longer exists

The EPP-DE is now just the EPP with the creation of the European Conservatives and Reformists. --Triwbe (talk) 14:27, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Legal continuity of groups and their treatment on Wikipedia

I've reverted a change of Fentener van Vlissingen (and for good reasons), but there is a point to his version, so i want to talk about it here.

Groups continue to exist as long as they have sufficient MEPs and countries to meet Rule 29: when they slip under the threshold, they cease to exist. The centre-right group currently called "EPP Group" is one of the three that have (I think) never slid under the threshold. It has changed its name several times, but there is legal continuity. So despite the name change, it is the same group.

Now, the question arises on how we treat groups on Wikipedia: when they change their names (which they do with a depressing regularity), do we create a new article? We haven't done so in the past for the EPP Group under its various different incarnations because (amongst other reasons) they are legally the same entity (I'm trying desperately to avoid a Doctor Who analogy here). Ditto for the socialist group. But we do have separate articles for the first and second Rainbow groups, and I'm not sure the latter wasn't the legal continuation of the former (possibly ditto for EDD->IND/DEM). So there are precedents either way.

As things stand, Fentener's proposed separate European People's Party–European Democrats article has no real justification: it is not a legally separate entity, and there's nothing on it that isn't in the European People's Party (European Parliament group) article. So I've reverted it to a redirect.

However, we have perhaps a fortunate coincidence here. User:Timrollpickering wants to go into detail about the plotting (probably wrong word, but there you go) undertaken by the UK Conservatives prior to their secession from EPP-ED. It occurs to me that a separate European People's Party–European Democrats article would be the ideal place to put it (although it might be a WP:COATRACK violation). So if User:Timrollpickering will commit to putting in the time to adding those details to this article, then this separate European People's Party–European Democrats article has a reason to exist. Otherwise there's no real point at the moment.

Regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 22:07, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

First of all, I didn't create that separate article, but User:The Tom did. I moved the former European People's Party–European Democrats article to European People's Party (European Parliament group), and then The Tom created an article in the "European People's Party–European Democrats" namespace, that now had become a redirect. I agree with this, I see no reason to not have an article about former groups. It's also not a regular name change; the European Democrats, a Eurosceptic subgroup of the EPP-ED group left, which leaves the EPP as a very pro-European bunch. Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 22:34, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't blaming you personally.
The article has nothing in it that is not already the European People's Party (European Parliament group) article.
It is not the first time that something like this has happened: when the Greens left Rainbow I, that was a massive change. When the Gaullists left the Liberal group in the 60's/70's, that was a massive change. Arguably, when the UK Conservative joined the EPP Group back in the early 90's, that was a massive change. When Forza Italia left Forza Europa and joined another group, that was arguably a massive change. Your statement that this is "not a regular name change" doesn't hold up - this isn't an exceptionalism. It's just another day in the Eurotrenches.
You are correct that the UK/Czech departure will change EPP: its coherence will rise. But its generally integrationalist (federalist is probably too far) stance will not change much, since ED were already functioning as a de-facto separate group. So again, this isn't an exceptionalism.
I agree that former groups should have their own article, especially since I wrote most of them. And it may be that in future somebody will take the time to fission EPP Group into its five distinct incarnations and bring each article up to spec. And that person will probably be me. But at the moment there's no real justification for having a separate article because it contains nothing that isn't on the main article and nobody is committing to bringing it up to spec.
In short, its present status is unsatisfactory because it's just echoing the main article, and there's no realistic prospect of that changing in the short term. So keep it as a redirect until somebody bothers to contribute enough distinct text (again, probably me) to justify a separate article.

Regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 23:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Because my main sources are oncampus the details on the EPP & ED divisions and formation of the ECR will be slightly delayed. On the other issues:

Groups have often changed with the coming and going of members, but usually such change is gradual - for instance the EPP changed in the 1980s and 1990s as part of a process of attracting more centre-right parties, particularly those from an non-Christian Democrat tradition, who came in in stages - e.g. the Spanish People's Party came in in 1989, the UK Conservatives in 1992, Forza Italia in 1998, the French Gaullists in 1999. Some of these were really reflecting changes in the domestic politics of those countries with other centre-right parties either no longer vetoing the membership of a rival or being absorbed, rather than changes in the EPP itself.

Name changes are sometimes a usual marker point for separate articles, particularly if the change accompanies a big realignment, but often the change is really just a branding decision. We don't, for example, have a separate article for every different name used by the 1867-2003 party in Canada that ended up as the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada even though it used many (Conservative, Unionist, Liberal Conservative, National Government, Progressive Conservative) and its position on a lot of issues changed over the years (e.g. from pro-Britain, US sceptic, protectionist to forget-Britain, continentalist, free trade).

In this vein the 1999 EPP change was really little more than a branding arrangement designed to make membership of the group easier for the UK Conservatives to accept & sell back home. At most the ED was the equivalent of a platform within the EPP grouping.

It's not 100% clear whether it's accurate to say the European Democrats subgroup split from the EPP, or whether the individual parties left the grouping which renamed itself. This is further complicated as virtually everyone in the British media & politics (and perhaps others), regardless of their opinion on this issue, ignores the distinction between the ED and the EPP. I'm also not sure if the ED had much of a decision making mechanism. Certainly all the talk from the Conservatives and ODS has been about leaving their existing grouping and forming a new one, not about dissolving an EPP-ED coalition and changing the ED name.

In conclusionat the moment this article should cover a grouping that has been in continuous existence since 1953 inspite of the 1979, 1999 & 2009 name changes. Timrollpickering (talk) 11:58, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Talk page move

This talk page got left at the EPP-ED article namespace when the article was moved, so I've remarried it to the article. Timrollpickering (talk) 11:14, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

mastella

one of the elected from people of freedom list, clemente mastella, is UDEUR leader. do you think it shpuld be kept with PoF in the table? --SquallLeonhart_ITA (talk) 12:18, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

need to clarify the headline

Hi, the title of this article would be clearer if changed from "European People' Party (European Parliament Group)" to "EPP Group: Group of the European People's Party in the European Parliament". There is indeed a difference between the Group in the European Parliament and the Party itself. Thanks, Lada

need to clarify the headline

Hi, the title of this article would be clearer if changed from "European People' Party (European Parliament Group)" to "EPP Group: Group of the European People's Party in the European Parliament". There is indeed a difference between the Group in the European Parliament and the Party itself. Thanks, Lada — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lada-Jurica (talk • contribs) 08:32, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

4 Freedoms Party (UK EPP)

Is the 4 Freedoms Party (UK EPP) an official member of the EPP?

--RaviC (talk) 06:43, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

It doesn't matter. They don't hold any seats. Ezza1995 (talk) 21:39, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Reference #23

Seems to be a broken/unknown link when followed to the hosting page. Smsfrancis (talk) 12:01, 2 June 2014 (UTC) smsfrancis

Name of the article

@Ssolbergj, Fentener van Vlissingen, and Wykx: Hello,

Following a series of moves, including a cut-and-paste move, which poses a lot of problems, I restored the latest version on the latest available name of the article. However, we should discuss what is the best name for this article. This name shall then be requested at WP:Requested moves with reference to this discussion.

A few options for the name of this article:

European People's Party (parliamentary group), the current name
European People's Party (political group), since the EP uses the term political group rather than parliamentary group
European People's Party (European Parliament group), the name this article had between June 2009 and May 2015
Group of the European People's Party, the target of the cut-and-paste move
Group of the European People's Party (Christian Democrats) which seems to be what the European Parliament uses on its website
European People's Party group or European People's Party Group as the group itself uses the format "EPP group" on its website http://www.eppgroup.eu/

What do you think? Place Clichy (talk) 12:01, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

To me, European People's Party is enough.

We have by comparison other pages which are European United Left–Nordic Green Left, European Conservatives and Reformists, Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats, Europe of Nations and Freedom, Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy and The Greens–European Free Alliance

The exception is Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe Group specifies the word 'Group' because there is also the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe Party. Wykx (talk) 13:06, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

The EPP pan-European political party and EPP parliamentary group are organisationally separate, just as with ALDE. They should not share an article, as the EPP parliamentary group and EPP itself are separate organisations, with different histories and were founded decades apart. Just because they have overlapping official names (unlike the Party of European Socialists and S&D Group) does not make them the same. In terms of the article title, I would prefer to keep the current title, with European People's Party (European Parliament group) also acceptable, possibly European People's Party Group at a stretch.--Autospark (talk) 13:48, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Actually you're right then and European People's Party Group is the easiest one. Wykx (talk) 13:59, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

"European People's Party Group" is much less common in literature than "Group of the European People's Party". We should not prefer a variant that is neither official nor common. --RJFF (talk) 11:44, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Do you have any element to say that this is more common in literature (such as a news, books or scholar search)? My first feeling would be that "EPP group" is the most common form in literature, as shown by their website, which is eppgroup.eu, not group-of-the-epp.sth. So European People's Party Group would be my pick, by consistency with Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe Group. European People's Party group or European People's Party (group) would also be acceptable choices, but I'd go for consistency with the ALDE group.

European People's Party is not an option, as the party is distinct from the political group and both deserve articles. The current name (European People's Party (parliamentary group)) is not an option either, as the EP uses the term political group rather than parliamentary group. Place Clichy (talk) 17:16, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Following the above discussion, I will proceed with the renaming of the article to European People's Party Group, which received the largest support. Place Clichy (talk) 16:48, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

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Collapsible lists for name

In the infobox, would it be a good idea to put the historical names and abbreviations for the group into a collapsible list because they take up a large amount of space right now? Ezhao02 (talk) 00:39, 28 October 2019 (UTC)