Talk:Flay Allster

Flay's spiritual appearance

Someone edited the note about that scene to say that it allowed Kira to put the ghosts of the past to rest and move on. I think that's incorrect because as pointed out the scene doesn't actually happen (so Kira isn't communicating with Flay) and in Destiny he still seems hung up on her death. Fukuda himself has even said that he believes Kira's heart belongs to Flay, but Bandai/Sunrise demand more focus on the idea of him and Lacus. I've edited the note to imply that the scene is about closure for the audience, rather than closure for the characters --HellCat86 14:34, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Good job. Well done.

Fandom

Is this section really needed? I'd argue it would be on more controversial subjects (such as SEED Destiny) but I think general reaction to Flay has died down since the show ended. As is, this section just seems to be on it's way to being there for Flay fans to praise her which breaks the whole idea of POV. People should look at this article and make their own mind up on the character based on the facts, not fans trying to sway them. --HellCat86 18:29, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Red pilot suit

Is this a legitimate picture? It sounds like a fan art or Photoshop based on the scrapped idea--HellCat86 18:51, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't think so. I don't recall hearing from the GSEED production crew that Flay was suppose to use an MS--Ominae 18:22, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Racism

Someone familiar with the subject should elaborate on Flay's racism, as it is not mentioned in the article. Supersheep 22:38, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Already been done by someone else, I guess. Ominae 18:24, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

Alot of what I say here goes for alot of articles, including this one and other character pages. I believe Trivia should be kept but carefully maintained. There are some facts which, whilst important relevant, can't really fit well into the main text. For this reason, a Trivia section collecting them works perfectly. The only issue is what deserves to be mentioned. In the past, I've specifically been against listing "Voice actor X is linked to voice actor Y through voice actor Z, so when X and Y work togethor on this show it's an in-joke!"--HellCat86 16:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Then make a more-relevant, more-specific section for these facts. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 21:50, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Such as? No offense but your attitude doesn't really help matters. You're behaving like your way is right and anyone who challenges you is automatically wrong. Several people worked to build up and refine this article--HellCat86 22:01, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

In this case, I am right about trivia sections being bad. I'm trying to suggest alternatives, here. Have you considered taking out those contextless factoids about development of the character and writing a section about the development of this character? Right now, this is 95% plot summary (which needs to be drastically reduced) and 5% real-world content. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:05, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

See, this I don't get. It's a character profile, therefore it discusses what happened to the character in the story. That's providing facts. A character analysis isn't, rather it's presenting who ever writes the article's opinion on the character. The only current example of this is the mention from the director (which I'm almost certain a source can be found for) that her last moments on screen don't literally happen, which isn't obvious in the show itself.--HellCat86 22:14, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

It's not providing facts; it's providing story. We're not here to duplicate stories in inferior form; instead, we have plot summaries to place fictional concepts in real-world context. I highly suggest you read WP:WAF. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:16, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

The more involved I get with Wikipedia, the more contradictory it becomes. From that link, I'm told that writing articles such as these benefit from real world views on things such as critical reaction...yet at the same time I'm told such behaviour is frowned on. So who's right? This site seems to be governed by whoever has the loudest voice at the time--HellCat86 22:23, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Um. Last I checked WP:WAF, real-world views were what it was specifically espousing. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:36, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Then that needs spreading, because a fair number of articles are criticized for mentioning criticism. Wikipedia needs to make it clearer which is the expected stance.--HellCat86 22:46, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Ooooh. Unsourced criticism is bad. It's original research and not verifiable. Sourced info on creation or critical response, that's good. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:51, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Getting back specifically to this article- Flay appears in one 50 episode series, minus retellings which are basically just rehashing those events. I think as such that it works best. As comparisson, entries for more famous characters such as Luke Skywalker and James T. Kirk use a similar style.--HellCat86 22:46, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

You might want to look at featured articles, instead, like Batman and Captain Marvel, which currently have about the same or less plot summary for characters who have 80-year publishing histories in comics.

That said, the problem is not just that there's too much plot summary, it's also that there's pretty much no anything else. We're not here to recap the story, but instead offer just enough plot summary to give this real-world content context. Right now, there's nearly no real-world content and waaaaaaaay too much plot summary, bordering on a novelization of the character's role in the anime. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:51, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Inserting character analysis on this article is begging for trouble. Flay is a highly controversial character and this article has suffered for it before. As an example, at one point there was a mention of her role in the sequel which essentially was as an often cited motivation for the character of Kira Yamato. Some fangirl comes in and twists it to be about Flay's manipulations and how great and wondeful the character of Lacus Clyne is for undoing it all. Sure it can be edited back but it's probably going to cause more trouble than it's worth--HellCat86 22:58, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Then I suggest dramatically slashing the plot summary and merging this into a list, perr WP:FICT. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 23:01, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think that'll be popular at all, given that she's an important character in CE and as you can see by the template at the bottom of the article we fans are building up character listings for all the major CE players. Flay's got much as justification for having a main entry as any major character from a western-created story--HellCat86 23:12, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

It's not a matter of east versus west. There's nothing here but plot summary, and that's not what this project is for. You may want to read WP:NOT, WP:FICT, and WP:WAF. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 23:34, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

There should be a character analysis section. Yes, it might give us some trouble but it can be switched back. I didn't see enough of the episodes to make such a section though, and my grammer isn't so great.--Blacktiger9000 22:35, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Sanity?

I don't know how POV this is or not, but it seems to me that, at least when she seduces Kira, she seems to be more or less insane, most likely through grief and fear. I know the fanboys and haters will probably all get at me for taking the middle road, but in the end, isn't it basically just the tragedy of her trying desperately to cling onto anything that might help her get through it all, and provide her sense of revenge with fulfillment? I'm not excusing her manipulating Kira like she does, just putting it into context. 80.176.86.12 01:16, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Flay's character arc is intolerance becoming acceptance. It's made pretty clear that Flay hasn't been raised in the best of ways. Her father spoils her and shields her from reality plus associates with noted racists in the government/military. When Flay gets sharp doses of reality she can't take it because she hasn't been prepared for it and so rather than changing herself to fit reality she tries to change reality to fit her. Coordinators robbed HER of her only family, therefore they obviously deserve to die in her mind. I'd say it's a mix of insanity and immaturity. Once Kira is apparently dead, she scrambles to rebuild bridges she burnt with others. She doesn't seem to have planned for what to do when/if Kira dies and is further conflicted as she realises she unintentionally has grown to love him.--HellCat86 11:58, 9 November 2006 (UTC)