Talk:Football at the 2024 Summer Olympics – Men's qualification

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Results order vs Alpha order for list of teams qualified[edit]

The results order would accurately show which teams qualified, especially since the qualification events are all tournaments. Alpha order would give the false impression of the order of finish for these qualification events, JMO. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 18:24, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All previous editions of this article use alphabetical order for qualifiers from each competition. The finishing order in the qualifying competitions is irrelevant, so alphabetical order is the standard on Wikipedia in these cases. If you look at others sports event articles where there are qualifying events, the vast majority list qualifiers in alphabetical order. If you want to change it, that's fine, but all of the previous articles will need to be changed too. Edin75 (talk) 18:29, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Teams qualified by merit of their results at the different qualification tournaments. The most logical way to sort them is 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc... in the order in which they qualified at the respective tournaments . By sorting them alphabetically you lose all the needed informations. This is arbitrary, you can also sort them by the number of letters in the country ???
Sorting them by their rank in the qualifying tournaments must be the common rules. I don't understand you choose the alphabetical order, we must make the things easier for the readers and sorting them alphabetically do the contrary.
I am more than agree with Sportsfan 1234. All the teams should be sorted by their ranked in their qualifying tournament. It is incomprehensible that is has not be the common rule since the beginning! 86.207.43.81 (talk) 20:36, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Plus you keep saying "we always do this way" that didn't come to you mind that there is absolute no links between Football at the 2020 Summer Olympics – Men's qualification or Football at the 2016 Summer Olympics – Men's qualification and Football at the 2024 Summer Olympics – Men's qualification. If you persist: I would be more than happy to reverse all the order of the teams that qualified since Football is at the Olympics. 86.207.43.81 (talk) 20:41, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If you want to change them all, I'm fine with that. A consensus is reached by discussing it on talk pages, not reverting to a preferred option when it's inconsistent with previous article entries. If you look at the Olympic qualification articles for all sports up to and including the 2020 Olympics, you'll find pretty much every article lists qualifiers in alphabetical order, so this is the current consensus. If you go ahead and start changing all of them, you might find that you are challenged by other users at some point, especially when editors become more active on the Olympics articles over the next year or so. Edin75 (talk) 21:09, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting enough: you are the only one that was bothered by the "by ranking results" sorting, no other people were complaining! This method of sorting was present on the page since the construction of the page and the qualifications of the first teams (last year) until end of this July 2023, and absolutely nobody changed it until you did. So I don't think that other people, editors and readers were that much bothered by the "by ranking results" sorting! 2A01:CB14:1190:F700:5A8:1A0B:A73A:7E45 (talk) 21:58, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Trust me, as more editors start contributing to the article as we get closer to the Olympics, it's likely that others will want to keep it consistent with previous years' articles. This is why all of the Olympic qualification articles (and not just the football ones) up to and including the 2020 Olympics have the qualified teams in alphabetical order. It's not a question of being "bothered" by it. It's more a case of editors wanting to keep it consistent. If you want to spend time changing all the articles, that's fine, but it's quite possible that they'll be changed back again at some point over the next year or so. Edin75 (talk) 00:51, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And I've just discover that the page for Football in 2012 Olympics was already sorted by "by ranking results" sorting. That is really funny! 2A01:CB14:1190:F700:5A8:1A0B:A73A:7E45 (talk) 00:53, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You just seem to want some sort of argument, which I don't have any interest in getting involved in. I've already said in an earlier post that I'm happy for you to change them. I'd say it's still quite possible that someone else will change them back by next summer, but I'll leave that between you and them. Anyway, have a great weekend. Edin75 (talk) 01:03, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And what I'm trying to tell you is that in some/most of the pages of previous Olympics Football tournaments the "by ranking results" sorting is already there in place.
So 1) You didn't check before talking (that took me 30 seconds to check)
2) Your argument that the alphabetical order has always been the rules since the beginning is false !
Yes, good week end ! 2A01:CB14:1190:F700:5A8:1A0B:A73A:7E45 (talk) 01:12, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Cool! If it means that much to you, then yes, I was wrong on 2012. Hope that makes you feel better :) I checked most of the other Olympic sports for 2020 and 2016, rather than going back further specifically with football. Most of the articles still use alphabetical sorting, so you might want to check those out. That's why I think someone else will probably want to change them back by next summer, but they might not. Who knows. Anyway, it's all fine and it's not the end of the world! :) Edin75 (talk) 01:24, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In my opinion, alphabetical order makes more sense than final results order. For example:
  • DOM and USA both qualified simply because they were the finalists in the 2022 CONCACAF U-20 Championship and the result of the final match had no bearing on who qualified.
  • As with CONCACAF, both finalists from the CONMEBOL tournament will qualify regardless of the result of the final match.
  • Similarly, ISR, ESP, and UKR all qualified by virtue of being semi-finalists in the 2023 UEFA European Under-21 Championship; ENG were not eligible so the results of the semi-final and final matches again had no bearing on who qualified.
  • CAF right now is the outlier in that MLI qualified by winning a third-place match after EGY and MAR won their semi-final matches with GUI advancing to the AFC-CAF playoff.
  • AFC will similarly have three direct qualifications with fourth place going to the playoff.
  • OFC has only a single slot, so that is moot.
If we are going to change the order, I believe it should be based upon date/time of qualification (similar to the World Cup qualification articles) and not on the final results. For example, DOM qualified a few hours before USA, and EGY qualified a few hours before MLI MAR even though MLI MAR won the final match. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 02:02, 12 August 2023 (UTC) EDIT: confused MAR and MLI for some reason. Corrected my mistake 15:28, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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