Talk:Four boxes of liberty

This article was nominated for deletion on 01:53, 25 September 2010. The result of the discussion was keep.

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Untitled[edit]

Edit: This is not simply an 'expression', it is a quote. Specifically, it is MY quote and was shown here as such for years until user 'Evil Saltine' decided to 'edit' this page. It would be nice to know why he did this. The quote is: "There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo. Please use in that order" -Ed Howdershelt —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.70.133.250 (talk)

(moved from article) Evil saltine (talk) 04:05, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

More sources[edit]

Not sure how to integrate these into the article, so I'm putting them here:

Earliest mention I've found so far:

Four boxes govern the world:—cartridge box, ballot box, jury box, and band box.
— The Family favorite and temperance journal. Vol. 1. 1849. p. 99. Retrieved 27 September 2010. {{cite book}}: More than one of |pages= and |page= specified (help)

Also found as:

The four boxes that rule the world—Cartridge-box, Ballot-box, Jury-box, and Band-box.
— Wooléver, Adam (Compiled and arranged) (1881). Treasury of wisdom, wit and humor, odd comparisons and proverbs. Philadelphia: E. Claxton & Company. p. 42. Retrieved 27 September 2010. {{cite book}}: More than one of |pages= and |page= specified (help)

There also appears to be a somewhat more indepth review of the boxes by a Yale law professor and an adjunct faculty member of Hartwick college here, but I don't have time to delve into it at the moment. VernoWhitney (talk) 16:32, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have added those sources - major improvement. Aymatth2 (talk) 00:39, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

So this may be getting off-topic for this article, but I'll bring it up here anyways: I'd originally assumed that the "band box" referred to in the old quotes I dug up corresponds to the modern "soap box", but the definitions I'm finding in Merriam-Webster and the OED don't seem to support this. Does anyone have any ideas as to the appropriate meaning in this context and/or how it fits in with the rest? VernoWhitney (talk) 13:35, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think it means a lightweight box for carrying a woman's hat, and is used humorously. Hats were very elaborate in those days, and women were competitive about them. I think the article needs to expand upon the meme theme. This one certainly seems to have gone through several mutations. Still not sure of the best title. Maybe "Four boxes (meme)"? Aymatth2 (talk) 14:50, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dawkinsian nonsense[edit]

Why protect a page with dawkinsian ultra-evolutionist "meme" talk ?

It's not right. Memes are not real and GOD is real, which is what the vast majority of gun rights proponents believe. Meme talk should not be allowed on WP — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.175.192.132 (talk) 22:47, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Misleading and Partisan[edit]

The first citation is misleading, and exudes a partisan bias: "It is often quoted by conservative groups that oppose gun control."

In reality, the phrase is often quoted by PRO-GUN and PRO-SECOND-AMENDMENT groups (who naturally oppose gun control) -- period. Which is to say that there are plenty of liberals, throughout the world, who happen to also support gun ownership and the right to self defense, and who make great use of that quote, too. It is not a conservative quote, it is a pro-gun quote. And "Pro-gun" does not equal "Conservative". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.161.223.117 (talk) 14:18, 10 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I believe Robert F. Williams was an active advocate of the bullet box as a last resort when all else had failed; as I recall, he was active in neighboring North Carolina in the 1960s: Black, Communist and had an NRA rifle club charter so his group of WWII and Korean War veterans could defend their community from the KKK.--Naaman Brown (talk) 14:11, 30 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Larry McDonald[edit]

Under his photo it says, "Larry McDonald (1935–1983), often attributed as the author of the phrase". However, there's no mention of him in the 'Origins' section at all. Given that the phrase (or versions very much like it) predates his birth by several decades, the claim seems spurious. -- Hux (talk) 06:58, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]