Talk:Francis Hopkinson

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Federal judge[edit]

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External links modified[edit]

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Suggested sources about the flag question[edit]

flagguys.com "The Francis Hopkinson Flag" ( hop.html )

The website above, even if commercial, show a lot of info about the Hopkinson flag (book author, 1992 commemorative pictorial postmark, etc.); can be interesting look it.

--151.68.181.135 (talk) 16:48, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Flag Controversy section needs updated. The final paragraph dwells on Betsy Ross (a manufacturer) and detracts from the subject of this article (a designer, congressional representative, and public official). This material is covered elsewhere for Wikipedia readers that want that information. Also, the statement "many Americans today still cling to the Betsy Ross legend," while perhaps true, is not cited nor is it as neutral as we try to be on Wikipedia. Also also, "The circle of stars (a circle connotes eternity) first appeared after the war ended and after Hopkinson's original design" is cited, but is wrong. Circle patterns in the canton are described as early as 1777, according to sources on the Betsy Ross flag article.

I agree. This section might have contradictions in it, but at the very least it's confusing and should be re-written for clarification.

The section states "Hopkinson is recognized as the designer of the Flag…" and the opening paragraph of the article outright states that Hopkinson "designed the first official American flag." Yet the same section says that Hopkinson's request was "comical" and that Congress denied the claim, in part because he was not the only contributor to the design. This indicates that Hopkinson is a designer, not the designer.
The 3rd paragraph begins "There is no known sketch of a Hopkinson flag." The end of the paragraph states "Hopkinson's U.S. flag might also have intended the use of 6-pointed stars. This is bolstered by his original sketch…" This last sentence might be referring to the seal rather than the flag, but it's confusing- especially since this is all lumped in under a section titled "Flag Controversy."
Agreed, the Betsy Ross paragraph is both off-topic and misleading. If relevant, it could be reduced to a single sentence, that more people know Betsy Ross' name that Hopkinson. The Cooper reference is misunderstood; I believe Cooper refers to a specific flag, not the circle design itself. I can verify this, but either way, there are earlier references to a circle of stars, so this should be removed.
The "Hopkinson's letter and response" sub-section is redundant. Almost all of this information is covered in preceding or subsequent paragraphs. It should be consolidated and deleted.
The "Great Seal of the United States" sub-section is mostly repeated information, because the "flag" claims are mostly based on his work with the seal. Canute (talk) 22:00, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I made these changes, today.

Consolidated different paragraphs and sections on flag design and split Great Seal paragraphs into their own section
Changed "the" designer to "a designer"
Requested citation for "no known sketch" and referenced contradiction in same paragraph
Reduced "Betsy Ross" to one mention and one sentence

It still needs a lot of cleanup, but I hope this is a significant improvement. Canute (talk) 18:32, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]