Talk:Frankfurt Cathedral
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Cathedral[edit]
Well, in Frankfurt this church is called "der Dom" (which of course means the cathedral) but it has to be clear that it never was seat of a bishop. Adornix (talk) 19:04, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
- What about calling it Minster, since that doesn't necessarily mean seat of bishop, as cathedral does in all cases. It would be like Münster, a similar title in German (Freiburger Münster). Cathedral is in any case wrong.Peppyn (talk) 16:01, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
- "Minster" is not wrong, as historically it was a collegiate church.--Ulamm (talk) 21:29, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
- Minster may be not wrong but do you have reliable sources for that name? If sources call it cathedral, we should do the same and explain. In German, Freiburg and Ulm have a Münster, but Frankfurt and Soest a Dom, - all no cathedral in the sense of a bishop's see. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:49, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
- "Minster" is not wrong, as historically it was a collegiate church.--Ulamm (talk) 21:29, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
- Per WP:COMMONNAME, the article should be at Frankfurt Cathedral or perhaps Imperial Cathedral St Bartholomew or a variation. It is never called "Frankfurt Minster" in English. Whether it was ever a bishop's seat is not relevant to this discussion. —Kusma (t·c) 22:33, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
- The article's page title should be the most common name for the topic in English, even if such a popular name is a bit misleading or ambiguous. See WP:CRITERIA. A popular name doesn't have to be completely "correct" from a historian's or theologian's point of view (a lot of names for places and buildings aren't really correct in that sense). The ambiguity is already explained in the lead (and could be elaborated in a short "Etymology" section if sources exist). Suggest to revert back to the old title ("Cathedral" seems to be common, at least per Google); redirects from possible other search terms can be created of course. GermanJoe (talk) 02:06, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry, I've moved it back to Cathedral on the basis that hardly any sources use "Minster", whereas over 1,000 use "Cathedral". Galling though it sometimes is to us translators, on Wikipedia translation accuracy is trumped by WP:COMMONNAME as others have said. --Bermicourt (talk) 07:30, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- With the redirect from wrong common use Frankfurt Cathedral to the correct term Frankfurt Minster it is no problem to use the latter one.--Ulamm (talk) 21:12, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- That is not how naming conventions on this Wikipedia work. If you disagree with the long-standing title (I have reverted your move), please file a move request at WP:RM. If you think Frankfurt Cathedral should not be used please suggest a title that is commonly used in English – Frankfurt Minster clearly is not a commonly used name. —Kusma (t·c) 21:20, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- Then let's use "St. Bartholomew's (Frankfurt am Main)" or "Frankfurt Kaiserdom"/"Kaiserdom (Frankfurt)", analogously with Notre Dame de Paris.--Ulamm (talk) 21:52, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- As all the world reads en.wiki, misleading terminology in en.wiki implcates the danger of international proliferation.--Ulamm (talk) 21:59, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- Any indication that sources use any of these names? - We call many German places castles which are no castles, misleading, but not much protest. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:07, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- With the redirect from wrong common use Frankfurt Cathedral to the correct term Frankfurt Minster it is no problem to use the latter one.--Ulamm (talk) 21:12, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry, I've moved it back to Cathedral on the basis that hardly any sources use "Minster", whereas over 1,000 use "Cathedral". Galling though it sometimes is to us translators, on Wikipedia translation accuracy is trumped by WP:COMMONNAME as others have said. --Bermicourt (talk) 07:30, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
I quote the article Cathedral: "As cathedrals are often particularly impressive edifices, the term "cathedral" is often applied colloquially to any large and impressive church, regardless of whether it functions as a cathedral, such as the Crystal Cathedral in California or the Arctic Cathedral in Tromsø, Norway". There is St. Patrick's Cathedral, Dublin, officially regarded as a cathedral even though it is not the seat of a Bishop, and St. Giles Cathedral in Edinburgh, which was only the seat of a bishop for a fairly limited period in its history. PatGallacher (talk) 01:53, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- Monza Cathedral is another example. It seems fairly common that churches are called "Dom" / "duomo" / "cathedral" without having the function of a cathedral. (I can't resist to mention a village church that is known as Rheinhessendom). —Kusma (t·c) 13:40, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
Lead changes reverted[edit]
I have reverted the lead changes for several reasons. First of all, the introduction sentence should always be a general definition of the topic, see WP:LEADSENTENCE. It should not be an exclusive description of "what the topic is not". Secondly the introduction sentence should, whenever possible, use the bolded page title as subject. Thirdly a lengthy analysis of the naming problem to fill up the entire first paragraph is undue WP:WEIGHT for this relatively minor aspect. Please see MOS:LEAD for additional information. The terminology is sufficiently mentioned in the article's second paragraph, and in the fourth paragraph of cathedral as main article. GermanJoe (talk) 13:09, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
Location map?[edit]
Is it really useful to anyone to have a pin indicating the cathedral's location within Hesse? If there's no location map for Frankfurt am Main, it seems to me the map should be removed. - Themightyquill (talk) 18:29, 14 April 2016 (UTC)