Talk:Galicians

Relationship with other languages

The article says: "As well Galician language shares typical structures of the celtic languages like Welsh or Irish, principally. For instance, questions can be asked with the same verb used in that question. "

Can somebody show me and example of that, please. Which is the share? I'm Galician, so, if the example is in Galician that's ok. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.146.211.220 (talk) 14:39, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

It is usually referenced in regards to Portuguese, and as such it is exactly the same in Galician (henceforth Galician-Portuguese or G-P): it's a peculiarity that *apparently* (not an expert, just repeating) is found mostly in G-P in the Latin languages, although I'm not sure on the importance of it. Examples:

G-P: O dinheiro tá sob a mesa? Tá. / Não tá.

Spanish: El dinero está sobre la mesa? Sí. / No.

Irish: An bhfuil an t-airgead air an bhord? Tá. / Níl.

G-P: É a tua casa? É. / Não é.

Spanish: Es tu casa? Sí. / No.

Welsh: Ai dy dy di yw? Ie. / Nage.

(Exemplos adicionais: "Vais conduzir? Vou / Tocas gaita?/Toco" etc etc) Basically is the preference of answering the question with the verb and not with yes/no. This is true btw, but I'm not the one to vouche for the "celtic" origin of it; see http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:sbNr8FXQCPQJ:www.williamknox.net/syntax.htm+portuguese+celtic+languages+verb+questions&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1 (page seems to be offline). I'm not sure on the actual consensus surrounding this although I remember reading about it somewhere before--213.58.131.130 (talk) 17:48, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Neutrality

This article should be revised and expanded. I thin tht even if somebody has Galician blood in them or even a last name from Galicia they should be considered Galegos.. I wasnt born there but my name is from there and I consider myself one —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.182.41.16 (talk) 03:15, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Tabaré Vázquez and Fidel Castro

Can anybody explain why Tabaré Vázquez and Fidel Castro are shown as representative galician? They both did not born in Galicia, Montevideo and Cuba. And I think Franco's picture is not a good option. --Galician 18:09, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Don't quote me on it but I think Franco was actually full blooded Galician. Although he may have been less, he was at least from Galicia and thus likely had some Galician ancestry. As far as Castro goes I remember reading somewhere that his parents were both from Galicia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.30.162.5 (talk) 17:24, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

Franco was ethnic Spanish (Castilian) though he was born in Galicia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.78.176.205 (talk) 19:22, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

No man, his parents had galician surnames. --213.60.88.213 (talk) 14:37, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

What's exactly an "ethnic galician" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.97.186.143 (talk) 23:47, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Can people get it into their heads that Castilians, Andalusians, Malagans, etc, are no more Spanish than are Galicians, Spanish Basques and Catalans. And that the Galician, Catalan and Basque languages are every bit as much Spanish languages (languages from Spain) as is Castilian. And finally, Castilians are their own ethnic group. Castilian should never have been called Spanish, because its like calling English "British" and forgetting the other British languages like Scottish Gaelic, Cornish and Welsh. But for historic reasons Castilian, being the language of the central government of Spain has become known as Spanish, but it isn't the only native Spanish language. (And one other thing, Franco's family did originate from Andalusia and had strong connections there but there would have been intermarriage with Galacians as well and yes, Fidel's parents were Galicians. You might not like either bastard, but they're smart and they're winners).

Franco distantly descends from some Andalusian gentry, but basically all of his heritage is Galician. As for Castro, he's of full-blooded Galician descent too, as his father was Galician born and his mother 1st generation Galician-Cuban, I believe. Noldorin (talk) 16:08, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Can we also make a case for Miguel de Cervantes? He has a lot of Galician ancestry, as both his surnames (de Cervantes and Saavedra) are patently Galego. Noldorin (talk) 16:09, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Pablo Iglesias

I have been thinking galician personalities who can appear in the pictures. Pablo Iglesias, the fouder of UGT and the Spanish Socialist Party is a good option. I was thinking too in Castelao. --Galician 13:38, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I would also include Manu Chao on the list at the end of the article.195.252.87.116 15:04, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Argentinians-Galicians

There have to be a mistake with the numbers of the galicians in argentina, almost 2,5 millons of Spaniards arrived in argentina between 1850 and 1950.

Approximately the 70% of them where galicians, and the numbers of spaniards today in argentina is 25 millons, so check the numbers of the galicians in Argentina.

Perhaps that number represented the Galician-born or Galician-speakers rather than everyone of Galician descent? Saimdusan Talk|Contribs 02:26, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

At the time Galicia had around 1 million to 1.5 million inhabitants and from there we're supposed to believe 1.75 million migrants went to Argentina? And this does not count those that went to other parts of Spain, Europe and the Americas! I think the legend of Galician emmigration has become a little bit exaggerated, don't you ? :) The majority of migrants out of Spain were not Galicians; but Galicians did make up a noticeable minority and so people started calling all Spanish migrants "Galicians" even though only a minority were. Over the last 60 years this story has become more and more exaggerated with its telling and retelling that it is now absolutely ridiculous. Provocateur (talk)

Ashamed

I am ashamed, as Galician one, an Galician speker, by this article. It is not neutral, in various ways. A Galician person is Galician or not. Fidel Castro is not a Galician, Niki Lauda is not a Galician, Simon Bolívar is not a Galician, etc, there are people descendants of Galicians, but they are no Galicians... But Salvador de Madariaga was a very universal Galician vip's and he is not in the list. There are not 10.000.000 of Galicians... 90 % Galician people today not speaks Galician language. To speak a language is not to say any words, very bad spelled, and mixtured of Spanish words with coinages of Spanish orations... An article over Galicia could say the true about these country and its people, not a Syrens tale and marvelous epic poem - Montes, 10 - X - 2007, 2:06

--Shrewsbury333 03:02, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Historical region

I have added the term historical region in the definition of the article. I have done it because Galicia in one of the three historic nationalities in the spanish state. --Galician (talk) 16:44, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Spain have 4 historic nationalities (Basque country, Catalonia, Galicia and Andalucía) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.96.224.195 (talk) 22:24, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Pictures of Galician People

Due to the pictures have seen changed quite often, taking off universal galicians like Rosalía Castro, Camilo Jose Cela,... I propose only four or five pictures as we can see in most of ethnic groups articles. And please, do not interfere adding people like Fidel Castro, Simon Bolívar, etc because they have galician origins, but they are not galicians. Besides, they are not representative of galician culture or its historical society.--Galician (talk) 16:52, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I propose:

• Politic field: Manuel Fraga, he was one of the most influent politics and galician history. And not Francisco Franco, because he just was borned in Galicia, not participating in its construction or in its politic directly.

• Artistic field: Rosalía de Castro. No discussion about this, and Eduardo Pondal, who wrote the Galician national anthem. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Galician (talk • contribs) 17:01, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

• Politic and Artictic field: Castelao, he was one of the fathers of galician nationalism, and I thinks it is a good idea to show the two politic currents, the galician nationalism (Castelao) and the spanish one(Manuel Fraga) --Galician (talk) 17:21, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

What happened to the good image of Rosalia de Castro? The current photo is so faded and inferior you wouldn't recognise her if she did a Lazarus!—Preceding unsigned comment added by Provocateur (talk • contribs)

You have to ask that question at Commons, it was speedily deleted there for lack of licence. Regards, Asterion^talk 12:07, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Minor edit

I fixed a misspelling in the article: "molusks" to "mollusks". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.75.97.234 (talk) 15:20, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

¿Por qué carallo han quitado a Eugenio Monterio Ríos? En España el derecho procesal está basado en el que hizo él hace más de cien años. Lo que habla bien de lo visionario que fue. --91.116.183.203 (talk) 17:51, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Confusing Sentence

The following is the first sentence under the A Revival and a sense of national willpower section: "Nationalism meeting in 1931 Following the union of the kingdoms of Aragón and Castille, Galicia became swallowed up in the creation of the Spanish protostate..." Is there someone who can rewrite the beginning of this to make sense? I don't understand the first part as written. Kman543210 (talk) 07:31, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Photos, too many and/or too big

They don't seem to fit into three rows as expected. I'm not about to decide which faces are less important than others, but this is how it looks for me (screenshot). — CharlotteWebb 17:40, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Genetics

About the genetics of the Galician people, the data above, had no source or reference, so I doubt its credibility, this link is explained very clearly, the Y-DNA haplogroups present in the Galician people:

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

Region / I1 I2a I2b Haplogroup R1a R1b G2a J2 J1 E1b1b T (+ L) Q N1c1 Galicians 3 2.5 1.5 0 60 3 3.5 1 25 0.5 0 0 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.45.74.226 (talk) 22:06, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Dear anglophones: As Galician I really like this article, except two things (just two things); in the first sentence is said that "The Galicians (Galician: Galegos) are an ethnic group whose homeland is Galicia, which is a historical nationality in Southwestern Europe, embracing a territory situated in the north-west of Spain.", and well, first we are not an ethnic group... It is a strange affirmation, and I saw that in english wikipedia have a lot of "ethnics groups", and in Europe we are all Europeans! And the second thing that I do not like is that "Their native language is Galician.". Well, I am Galician and my native language is the Spanish (I live in a Spanish-speaking city), but most of Galicia is bilingual, and with permission I will change it. Regards from Galicia, Spain, Europe. http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usuario:Daniyyel —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.45.142.83 (talk) 22:55, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

About two little fails

Dear anglophones: As Galician I really like this article, except two things (just two things); in the first sentence is said that "The Galicians (Galician: Galegos) are an ethnic group whose homeland is Galicia, which is a historical nationality in Southwestern Europe, embracing a territory situated in the north-west of Spain.", and well, first we are not an ethnic group... It is a strange affirmation, and I saw that in english wikipedia have a lot of "ethnics groups", and in Europe we are all Europeans! And the second thing that I do not like is that "Their native language is Galician.". Well, I am Galician and my native language is the Spanish (I live in a Spanish-speaking city), but most of Galicia is bilingual, and with permission I will change it. Regards from Galicia, Spain, Europe. http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usuario:Daniyyel —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.45.142.83 (talk) 23:00, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Are you going to go around deleting all the references to ethnic groups in europe, then?. No offense meant, but dumping together all the europeans in a single ethnic group does not make any sense at all. And the original native language in Galicia is galician, even if for historical reasons spanish is also present in Galicia, in almost the same measure. That is why those changes did not last, even if I was not the one changing them.Leirus (talk) 10:02, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

I´m Galician, and I agree Leirus absolutly. --83.38.139.242 (talk) 01:03, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm Galician too and I also agree with Leirus and the comment right above mine. Galicians are an ethnic group, just ask any anthropologist around... An ethnic group doesn't need to have a different skin colour from its neighbours or anything like that. There's many ethnic groups in Europe regardless nationality and so on. And the original native language of Galicia is Galician, only. That is an historical fact (Spanish as a widely spread language came very late) and a legal fact (ratified by the Galician Statute of Autonomy and Spanish Constitution). The use of Spanish as the primary language of some Galicians (namely people living in relatively large urban areas) is a side effect derived from Galicia's inclusion into the Spanish State. As a matter of fact, Galician continues to be the main language of the majority of the Galician population, whether bilingual or not. Swamp Greetings (talk) 11:01, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

jokes about galicians

why isnt there a section devoted to the jokes people say about galician people. somewhat like the East Frisian jokes that people say in germany.--190.232.136.33 (talk) 18:23, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Old Celtic Galicia

An editor (Kezzer16) left a message in my talk page, and since I think that the answer makes more sense here than there, I bring it here:

"I wondering under what grounds you make the case that the Galicians were a "Celtic" people. Kezzer16 (talk) 11:45, 11 May 2014 (UTC)"

First things first. Hi.

The opinion of any editor, obviously including me, is not a subject of Wikipedia, per WP:NOR, WP:POV and WP:Verifiability, so I'm promoting no case here. No need for it, either, since the case for the Celtic peoples of Galicia has already been explicitly stated by Roman and Greek geographers, and by modern scholars and encyclopedias.

• On geographers, this is what Pomponius Mela wrote in his Chorographia (p. 503 of “Celtic Elements in Northwestern Spain in Pre-Roman times”, by M.V. García-Quintela):

“9. The following side [the coast that continues from the Duero River] has for some distance a coast to the right; it then enters a little; it then advances gradually, then penetrating again, extending from there in a straight line towards the promontory we call Celtic.

10. The Celts occupy all of the coast; but from the Duero to the first entrance are found the Grovii, through whose territory flow the Avo, the Celadus, the Nebis, the Minius [[[Miño]]] and the Limia [= present-day name], known as 'Oblivion' [= Strabo's 'Lethes']. This entrance contains the city of Lambriaca, and receives the waters of the Laeros [[[Lérez]]] and the [[[Ulla]]] [=].

11. The external part is inhabited by the Praestamarcii, between which flow the Tamaris [[[Tambre]]] and the Sars [Sar] rivers, which courses do not run far from their respective origins. The Tamaris flows down to the port of Ebora, and the Sars close to a tower known as the tower of Augustus. Further on, at the end of this section of coast, live the Supertamaricii and the Nerii. All of this we have referred to belongs to the coasts that face west;

12. The coast then faces to the north from the Celtic promontory to the Scitic promontory. Until the land of the Cantabrii, the coast is nearly straight, with the exception of some small capes and small inlets;

13. in it are found, firstly, the Artabrii, who still belong to the Celtic nation, and then, on the point, the Astures. Among the Artabrii, a narrow gulf, but with an extensive contour, offers along its perimeter the city of Adrobrica, and receives four river mouths, of which two are of little renown, even among the indigenous peoples; from the others flow the Mearus [Ducanaris] and the Ivia [Libuca]” (Chorografia, III, 9-13)

The whole Chorographia here. Other interesting testimonies are in the Natural History of Pliny the Elder (IV.111-114), Strabo, Ptolemaeus, Appian's History of Rome...

• On the archaelogical material culture of ancient Galicia, there's a comprehensive volume of the journal e-Keltoi of the Center for Celtic Studies of the Univeristy of Wisconsin–Milwaukee. I recommend specially the following articles:

- “Iron Age Archaeology of the Northwest Iberian Peninsula”, by C. Parcero & I. Cobas

- “Artistic Expression and Material Culture in Celtic Gallaecia”, by A. González-Ruibal

- “Celtic Elements in Northwestern Spain in Pre-Roman times”, by M. V. García-Quintela

- “-Briga Toponyms in the Iberian Peninsula”, by J. L. García-Alonso

- “The Language(s) of the Callaeci”, by R. Luján-Martínez

- “A Round Iron Age: The Circular House in the Hillforts of the Northwestern Iberian Peninsula”, by X. M. Ayán-Vila [check note 12: “All this seems to indicate that at some time in the Bronze Age, as a consequence of these Atlantic contacts, some Celtic speaking groups settled in the northwestern Iberian Peninsula and these groups were responsible for the celticization of this region, that is, for the spread of the Celtic language and customs and ways of life that can be labeled as Celtic (Alberro 2001, 2002, 2003; González García 2007: 116-7)(author's emphasis).”]

Further readings, related to Bronze/Iron Age in the Atlantic:

- “Celtic Gold Torcs”, by Christiane Eluére in http://download.springer.com/static/pdf/761/art%253A10.1007%252FBF03214656.pdf?auth66=1400055629_c656fdd9fda34b46c804d01364f582c0&ext=.pdf

- “Radiocarbon and Chronology of the Iron Age Hillforts of Northwestern Iberia”, by J. F. Jordá Pardo & al. In http://www.acitania.com/img/linz.pdf

- “Galician Rock Art From the Past to the Present”, by Y. Seoane-Veiga, in http://www.rockartscandinavia.com/images/articles/yolanda-artikel-a07.pdf

- “Space and Memory at the Mouth of the River Ulla (Galicia, Spain)”, by E. Comendador-Rey, in https://www.academia.edu/958979/Space_and_memory_at_the_mouth_of_the_river_Ulla_Galicia_Spain_

- “The Leiro hoard (Galicia, Spain): The lonely find?”, by E. Comendador-Rey, in https://www.academia.edu/1185172/The_Leiro_hoard_Galicia_Spain_The_lonely_find

- “Ritual in Late Bronze Age Ireland”, by Katherine Leonard (check the maps in p. 43, 45, 47), in http://aran.library.nuigalway.ie/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10379/4248/Ritual%20in%20Late%20Bronze%20Age%20Ireland%20(K.%20Leonard%20PhD%20thesis).pdf?sequence=1

- You can also check the words of Sir Barry Cunliffe in “Europe between the Oceans” (ISBN 978-0-300-11923-7 pp. 254-258). He understands the Celticity of the western fringe of Europe as a process associated to the elites of the Atlantic Bronze Age. Similar opinion is stated in 'Celtic from the West' (1 and 2) collaborative works (BTW, I'm more into the interpretation offered in the 2nd volume). Check also the article “Atlantic Sea-ways” (http://www.csarmento.uminho.pt/docs/ndat/rg/RGVE1999_005.pdf)..

• On the local toponymy, and just for citing the work of non local scholars

- Patrick Sims-Williams (2006) “Ancient Celtic Place-Names in Europe and Asia Minor” (ISBN 978-1-4051-4570-1) p. 235: When studying the ancient place-names in the NW of the Iberian peninsula he wrote “This area covers northern Portugal and north-west Spain. Its Celticity is clear from Maps 5.1-5.3, and is further borne out by the unlocatable names in the Barrington data which belongs in this general area”.

- Xavier Delamarre (2012) “Noms de lieux celtiques de l’Europe ancienne” studies Galician ancient and modern toponyms such as Arcobriga, Assegonia, Aunios, Abobrica, Bañobre, Berisamo, Brigantia, Brives, Caladunum... Ebronanto, Nemetobriga, Noia < Novion...

- Falileyev (2010) “Dictionary of Continental Celtic Place-names”: check the free map http://cadair.aber.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/handle/2160/282/FalileyevMap.pdf?sequence=12

- Leonard Curchin (2008) “The toponyms of the Roman Galicia: new study”, the Canadian scholar found that 41% of the Galician place names recorded in Roman sources was Celtic, some 36% was Indo-European but probably not Celtic, and 14% were Latin.'

• On the permanence of Celtic words in Galician, I can direct anyone interested to the Romanisches Etymologisches Wörterbuch of Wilhelm Meyer-Lübke, or the more recent and comprehensive Diccionario crítico etimológico castellano e hispánico of Joan Coromines.

• Also, of great interest is the Celtic encyclopaedia “Celtic Culture: A Historical Encyclopaedia” edited by J.T. Koch and published by ABC-CLIO (ISBN . The article on Galicia (“If, as is the first criterion of this Encyclopedia, one bases the concept of ‘Celticity’ on language, one can apply the term ‘Celtic’ to ancient Galicia.”) studies Celtic toponyms as Nemetobriga or Brigantium; ethnical names as Arrotreba, Artabri, Neri, Celtici, Lemavi and Albiones (people living in N. Galicia); personal names, etc. Other interesting articles there include Bormanus, Brigantes, Britonia, Camulodunon, Celtic Countries (“Galicia is often considered a Celtic country, particularly with regard to its music, although no Celtic language has been spoken there since the very early Middle Ages (see Britonia).”), Continental Celtic, Coventina, Emvod Etrekeltiek an Oriant (Festival Interceltique de Lorient), Iberian Peninsula [Celts on the] (“Despite these problems, most scholars agree on the following nomenclature: Galicians, Asturians, Cantabrians, and Basques (ancient Vascones) were all living in the areas which still bear their name in northern Spain. Of these, only the Galicians are likely to have spoken a form of Celtic as their principal language”), Lugus (“Altars from Galicia similarly commemorate Lucoubu and Lucubo, which appear to be plural forms of the same divine name“), Míl Espáine, Sanfins, Tuath…

• Finally, in the 6th century a group of Britons settled in northern Galicia, in a region which was known till the 10th century as Britonia. We know the name of several of their Bishops, being the first one Mailoc < Celtic Magelacos. The structure of their bishopric is described in a 6th century document usually known as the Parochiale Suevorum or Divisio Theodemiri, which states the ecclesiastical structure of Galicia in the 6th century, under the rule of the Suevic king Theodemir. While the rest of the bishops have a territory or a single monastery under their rule, the bishop of the Britons have under his rule a monastery and the churches of the Britons, in Galicia and Asturias; that is, Britonia was not initially a territorial but an ethnic bishopric (check the voice Britonia in the aforementioned encyclopaedia).

Cheers.--Froaringus (talk) 17:37, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Froaringus What you need to establish is why the current people of Galicia are Celtic and under what grounds you determine them as such. What you have offered so far would mean a re-classification of a number of different ethnicities as Celtic as well. Kezzer16 (talk) 18:01, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi, Kezzer16. Err... No, sorry. An editor don't have to establish anything... In fact, and given the rules of the Wikipedia, all a editor can do is to point what a series of verifiable, independent and, ideally, reputable sources affirm about something, here about the Celticity of the Galicians, either of yesterday or of today. Summarizing:

• 1. Did ancient author tell us of the Celts of Galicia? Yes, explicitly (see above). Check.
• 2. Do modern scholars, local and foreigner, confirm this old Celtic presence in Galicia? Yes (see above). Check.
• 3. Has this ancient Celticity been at least partially preserved? Yes, fragmentarily and partially, in the Celtic words preserved in the language, in the legends and traditions, in the permanent use Iron Age local Celtic motives in popular artesany, etc. Partial check.
• 4. Do Galicians fancy their Celtic past and their Celtic cultural background? Surely, since the 19th century and till today. Check.
• 5. Do Galicians officially participate in Celtic festivals, games, and celebrations held in/with the Celtic Nations? Yes. Check.
• 6. Do these facts transcend to the Internet, books, academic world, etc., and is relevant to the Wikipedia? Yes. Google “Celtic Ireland” and you have 221,000 hits, “Celtic Scotland” 95,900 hits, “Celtic Galicia” (in English, 15,900 hits), “Galicia Celta” (in Spanish, 19,100 hits), “Galiza Celta” (in Galician, 10,300 hits). Not bad. Check.

But don't misunderstand me. The 3rd point means that no Celtic language is alive in Galicia, and that is relevant. I can add a seventh point:

• 7. Does Galicia officially form part of the Celtic Nations? No. In fact the Celtic League officially admitted Galicia in 1986, but the decision was undone immediately based mainly on the absence of an alive Celtic language in Galicia, and in the fact that, admitting Galicia, at the end they would have to admit England and France as well; for me that's Ok. Not resent.

Look, I'm Galician, that's my national identity; I'm proud of our Celtic past, and I'm happy with we celebrating that since the 19th century (both affirmations are objective and can be referenced again and again and again), but I consider that, in our relations with (other) Celtic people, we are like that distant relative who live abroad and you see once in a while, then you sing and eat and drink, tell tales and see old family pictures of people you don't know or you don't remember, and then he or she goes away, and that was nice, and that was Ok.

So it's not about we wikipedians deciding what is a Celt (we simply can't do that) it is about incorporating in the Wikipedia the relevant facts about a given subject.

Cheers.--Froaringus (talk) 18:14, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Maradona???

Can someone please add Maradona as a person of Galician origin. His surname is Galician and his ancestors are from Ribadeo. He is, with Castro, the most famous Galician alive today.Asilah1981 (talk) 20:57, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Language?

What happened to the short description? ·~ dictátor·mundꟾ 22:50, 19 June 2021 (UTC)