Talk:General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Islamic Republic of Iran

former name

Hi @Pahlevun: setad-e farmandehi-ye koll-e qova was the former name of the setad-e koll-e niruha-ye mosallah. That name was changed on January 1992:

عنوان "ستاد فرماندهی کل قوا" به "ستاد کل نیروهای مسلح" تغییر یابد

I think you had mistaken the office with ra'is-e daftar-e nezami-e farmandeh-e koll-e qova which was created later:

ایشان در رابطه با حوزه فرماندهی کل قوا در ساختار دفتر رهبری، دفتر نظامی تشکیل دادند و سردار شیرازی را به عنوان مسئول دفتر نظامی فرمانده کل قوا منصوب کردند تا مستقل از ستاد فرماندهی کل قوا بوده و مسئول پیگیری امورات نظامی، انتصاب‌های فرماندهان و ابلاغ احکام و دستورات فرمانده کل قوا باشد.

Benyamin (talk) 20:19, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Hi Benyamin. I understand the difference. The question is to whether count Mousavi's wartime title the same as that office or not. Sources seem not to acknowledge Mousavi as a predecessor to Maj. Gen. Firouzabadi. This is from Sinkaya's book:

With the end of the war with Iraq in July 1988, the IRGC was reformed to create new conditions under the direction of Hashemi Rafsanjani. Ayatollah Khomeini had appointed Rafsanjani as the Acting Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces two months prior to the end of the war and commissioned him to combine the armed forces under a single command and to improve the military capacity of Iran. Rafsanjani, initially, established the Headquarters of the General Command of Forces (Setad-e Farmandehe-ye Koll-e Ghovva), combining the joint staffs of the Army and the IRGC...

Somewhere else it says:

Against this background, the first step taken as part of the reformation of the security organizations was the unification of the Joint Staffs of the Army and the IRGC under the Headquarters of the General Command of Forces (Setad-e Farmandehe-ye Koll-e Ghovva) in July 1989. For a while, Rafsanjani himself oversaw the Headquarters of the General Command of Forces with his capacity as Acting Commander in Chief. Soon after the resignation of Rafsanjani from that post – he was elected president in July 1989 – Ayatollah Khamanei appointed Dr. Sayyid Hassan Firouzabadi as the Chief of the Headquarters of the General Command. By a decree issued by Khamanei in January 1992, the Headquarters of the General Command was renamed the General Staff of Armed Forces (Setad-e Koll-e Nerouhaa-ye Mosalleh).

Hesam Forozan:

To coordinate the Sepah’s activities with those of the Artesh, command ofthe Sepah and Artesh are formally subordinated to the chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces (Setad-e Kol-e Niruha-ye Mosalah, occupied by Hassan Firouzabadi since 1990)... The two offices were set up in 1989... Before then, the chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces, previously known as the General Staff of the Commander-inChief of the Armed Forces, was delegated with the command and coordination of the army’s ground force, air force and navy divisions

–Pahlevun (talk) 20:56, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Hmmm… Firouzabadi was the Mousavi's deputy and succeeded him on mid 1989. Better sources should be found. Benyamin (talk) 21:18, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

@Pahlevun: Hi again. Farzin Nadimi from The Washington Institute for Near East Policy:

As acting commander-in-chief, Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani had chosen to end the war peacefully and have then-prime minister Mir Hossein Mousavi serve as AFGS chairman. Mousavi then brought aboard his ministers and deputies, including military advisor Firouzabadi and future president Hassan Rouhani. Firouzabadi was seen as an outsider because he did not hail from either the Artesh or the IRGC. But as a rising star on the general staff, he received the new military rank of "Basiji Major General" from Khamenei in September 1989 and replaced the outgoing Mousavi as chairman.

Benyamin (talk) 19:02, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

@Benyamin: Thank you, I think that could be used as a source. Nadimi (who previously went by the alias "Fariborz Haghshenass") has a subtle anti-Iran bias in his works and sometimes cites inaccurate points (like this one, which wrongly dates Firouzabadi's military rank back to 1989, despite the fact it was given in 1995). Do we have a date for appointment of Mousavi? Pahlevun (talk) 09:30, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

@Pahlevun: Nadimi also explicated that the AFGS was formed in June 1988. This point whould not be an inaccurate one. Michael Eisenstadt, Director of the Military and Security Studies Program at The Washington Institute for Near East Policy, wrote that: In June 1988, following several major battlefield reversals during the latter stages of the Iran—Iraq War, it created a joint Armed Forces General Staff that brought together the upper echelons of the regular military and the IRGC to ensure greater unity of command. and Kevjn Lim wrote that in June 1988, a Joint General Staff of the Armed Forces was established. Except those three, Anthony Cordesman mentioned that: The general staff of the armed forces was created in June, 1988 and RAND Corporation's report stated that The first steps of the reforms, however, were being taken even before the implementation of the UN-brokered cease-fire in July 1988, as the creation in June 1988 of a joint Armed Forces General Staff illustrates.

Are you doubtful for the fact of appointment or want to reach the maximum level of WP:VERIFY? Mahmoud Alizadeh-Tabatabaei in an interview with Irān-e Fardā described the creation of the General Staff as follows:

هرچه جلوتر آمدیم با مشکلات ناهماهنگی بین ارتش و سپاه مواجه شدیم که گفتیم بایستی چاره‌ای اندیشید. در سازمان برنامه به این جمع‌بندی رسیدیم که اولاً ترکیبی که جنگ را اداره می‌کند یک ترکیبی منطقی نیست. در شورای عالی دفاع، آقای رئیس‌جمهور، آقای نخست‌وزیر، فرماندهان ارتش و فرماندهان سپاه جمع می‌شدند. با پیشنهاد سازمان برنامه ترکیب به هم خورد و در اصلاح قانون اساسی شد شورای امنیت ملی… ستاد کل را تشکیل دادیم و مهندس موسوی شد رئیس و وزرا معاونین ستاد کل شدند. وزیر سازمان برنامه بودجه شد معاون طرح و برنامهٔ ستاد کل و من در آنجا شدم قائم مقام ایشان. هم در سازمان برنامه مسئول بودجه بودم هم قائم مقام طرح و برنامه ستاد کل. این جمع‌بندی داشت جلو می‌رفت تا ارتش و سپاه با هم ادغام بشوند. چون ما می‌گفتیم امکان تجهیز دو نیروی مسلح را نداریم و منابع اجازه نمی‌دهد. فشارها هم مشخصاً وقتی ما رفتیم در ستاد مستقر شدیم بیشتر شد. خیلی جالب بود حتی یکی از کسایی که من با ایشان خیلی دعوا داشتم آقای بهزاد نبوی بود. ایشان معاون لجستیک بودند، مدام فشار می‌آورد که ما این امکانات را می‌خواهیم، من هم می‌گفتم که آقای نبوی من در سازمان برنامه نشسته‌ام برای همین کار.

Benyamin (talk) 15:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

@Benyamin: I have already accepted the source you provided, and I'm surprised that you think I have requested more sources. The only thing that I wanted to know was the date Mousavi was appointed to the office, because we know that Firouzabadi took office on 26 September 1989 [1] and Rafsanjani was responsible during early formative days. That should be sometime between July 1988 and June 1989, I guess, and his appointer is probably Rafsanjani. Pahlevun (talk) 15:50, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Yes, it seems that Rafsanjani was the appointer. Behzad Nabavi had told that:

بعد از بازپس‌گیری فاو توسط عراق، امام جانشینی فرماندهی کل قوا را طی حکمی رسما به آقای هاشمی دادند. تا آن موقع آقای هاشمی از طرف امام جنگ را پیگیری می‌کرد، اما حکم جانشینی فرماندهی کل قوا را نداشت. بعد از بازپس‌گیری فاو این حکم صادر شد و آقای هاشمی هم با هدف اینکه دولت را بیشتر در جنگ درگیر کند از مهندس موسوی خواست ستادی تشکیل دهد. آقای مهندس موسوی را به ریاست ستاد فرماندهی کل قوا منصوب کرد و ایشان هم چند تن از وزرا را به عنوان معاونان ستاد انتخاب کردند که من عهده‌دار معاونت لجستیک بودم و آقای روغنی زنجانی رئیس سازمان برنامه، معاون برنامه‌ریزی ستاد فرماندهی کل قوا شد. به این ترتیب برنامه‌ریزی دولت و جنگ یکی شد و تامین نیازهای لجستیک جنگ با مدیریت وزارتخانه‌ای که بیشترین دخالت را در این زمینه داشت یکی شد. معاون فرهنگی جنگ هم آقای خاتمی شد که وزیر ارشاد وقت بود.

I had gathered a chronology of the deputies at here.

Benyamin (talk) 15:55, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

@Benyamin: That totally makes sense because there is no sign of his appointment on Sahifa of Imam. Mousavi left Prime Minister office on 14 August 1989 and there's a gap between that day and 26 September 1989. I could not find anything about the exact date of his tenure. Pahlevun (talk) 16:44, 8 October 2020 (UTC)