Talk:George Adamski

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Former good article nomineeGeorge Adamski was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
May 23, 2007Good article nomineeNot listed

Paranormal Researcher?[edit]

Above his info box, he is identified as a Paranormal Reseacrcher. Skeptics will take issue with that. He was a UFOlogist certianly, but identifying him as a parnormal researchers is gonna tick off both Skeptics and the paranorml researchers who are struggling to keep their articles as "scientific" as possible. Let's not retcon him into something he wasn't just because it fits a template or seems more mainstreamLiPollis 09:16, 2 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

er, this template is a general template for anybody whose notably contributed to the field through fact, pseudoscience or bunk. I can add a variable in if you like, but there is no template specifically for ufologists.

It's all laid down clearly on the templates description (see Template_talk:Infobox_Paranormalpeople1#What_this_is)

"This is a biography template pertaining exclusively to people involved in researching, or documenting the paranormal and relate fields as defined by Project Paranormal. Or who have played a noteworthy part in enabling/campaigning for such work. Please note, belief in the paranormal is not a predetermining criteria, neither is the integrity of their contribution to the field (fakes, frauds and hoaxers all fall within exceptable bounds)."

People who are eligible to use this template include

  • Ufologists
  • Cryptozoologists
  • Paranormal writers (for example, Jerome Clark)
  • ESP/EVP researchers
  • Ghost hunters
  • Debunkers
  • Notable fraudulent researchers/investigators


perfectblue 11:12, 2 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

GA Assessment - failed at this time [edit]

Whilst I do not wish to offend anyone and as an assessor with bad news that may be the outcome that I achieve where editors do not accept in good faith my comments; with respect this article is some way from GA status - in fact I do not think that it should even have reached B class at this time. My reasons are as follows:

In terms of being written well the article fails in the very first sentence which contains a knockout tautology. The lead does not provide a synopsis of the rest of the article and does not explain the controversies contained within the article. The early years are reduced to bullet point sentences which jump from age to age, the punctuation and grammar is very poor in many places. There are unneeded flags in the info box, there is no persondata. There are numerous one sentence points or paragraphs.

In terms of my other point I also note that the article was promoted to B class on May 1, 2007 by an editor who had undertaken a vast amount of small edits, decided to promote and then continued with editing until it was nominated for GA. There is of course nothing wrong with undertaking a vast amount of small edits to achieve a better article but with respect I think there is a distinct conflict of interest in promoting one's one biography article to a B status as such an action does not allow for a neutral review of the material - which is particularly needed in this case.

I suggest that editors go to this link WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps so as to initially gain assistance in producing at least a B level article and then take step 10 (which involves asking for a peer review from the Biography team).

On that basis I am failing this article under GA criteria and I am taking the unusual step of demoting the article back to start. I note that it will not take much to get the article to B grade but it is not there at this moment.--VS talk 11:28, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Citations & References[edit]

See Wikipedia:Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the <ref(erences/)> tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 06:27, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]


The Flying Saucer[edit]

If would be helpful if someone could reference the mainstream news story about the identification of the item used by Adamski to fake his saucer photos. I had a quick Google but couldn't find it. As I recall, it was in the 1970s or early 80s that the story hit the news wires with photos. It was a item of early 50s professional soda equipment. As I recall, it was a woman who recognised the item was identical to the saucer of the photos, and the only surprise was that no one had also recognised it during Adamski's lifetime, even though he had worked as a soda salesman at one time. It is called Subcant and also uses a Sluthsla configuration with a white rectangelar light and two squarish orange lights; two blue pia. Typically, it is referred to as `skyfire` in it's many incarnations, both on television and movies: even pictures. There are six inhabitants who`s homeworld is Mika. As noted this "is" fiction yet the many worlds inside contain various names from Churnaget to Predon. The stars are only a few feet above the homes and skyscrapers. Twenty feet overhead, just rubber_cement. On the bottom level is purgatory, where is found both IDEAN and Sanctuary. I hope this fiction relates somewhat to common library issues, but the vaidorage is also known to the inhabits, as "campirte." If you take a close look at the photograph fakes, you can tell they are actually pictures describing the text on the photograph. The letters MSK appear on them and its' name of its` corporation from where they work inside similar enviroment you may catch on film from time to time. Televised events carry over on it's inboard economy.

Engleham (talk) 11:48, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the article it mentions the photo being identified as a street light in one place, as part of an ice cream machine in another, and here you mention it identified as soda equipment. I can't find anything to back up these claims either. Perhaps a little consolidation and just describe them as possible identifications? Merennulli (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 09:15, 9 August 2009 (UTC).[reply]

In the 1950s ufologist James Moseley did an extensive investigation into Adamski's claims and found plenty of evidence of fraud on Adamski's part. One part of his expose concerned the 1952 saucer photo. Moseley interviewed famed German rocket scientist/engineer Walther Reidel, who told Moseley that he had analyzed the photo and found it to be a hoax; among other things, Reidel had discovered the saucer's "landing struts" were really General Electric light bulbs, and even had the GE label on them! Adamski claimed that famous Hollywood cinematographer Pev Marley had found the photo to be genuine and had even seen a "spaceman" in the photo; when Moseley interviewed Marley he denied having enlarged the photo for analysis or found an alien in it, and he knew of no one who had. IMO, any notion that Adamski's UFO photos are of "real" UFOs is absurd; there's plenty of evidence to show they were faked - it's just too bad they aren't mentioned in the article. 70.145.229.162 (talk) 06:14, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The British Earth and Ariel Mysteries Society has conducted an investigation, and has found compelling evidence that the top of the scoutship was a gas pressure lantern. The alignment of its features with Adamski's model is striking, even down to the slot that appears on the side. The PDF of the investigation is available here: http://www.beamsinvestigations.org/Adamski%20Scout%20Ship%20Hoax.pdf and here: https://web.archive.org/web/20151221155305/http://www.beamsinvestigations.org/Adamski%20Scout%20Ship%20Hoax.pdf Engleham (talk) 15:54, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Birth[edit]

Is it known where in Poland he was born? And whether it was then Poland, and not the German Empire or Russia. Hexmaster (talk) 14:05, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No Serious Criticism?[edit]

I'm surprised that this article omits almost all of the criticisms of Adamski's claims made by serious researchers such as James Moseley, Curtis Peebles, and others. The article is at times misleading in its claims; it notes the infamous "R.E. Straith" letter and makes it sound as if it was a legitimate State Department letter, but omits the fact that Moseley in his memoirs (pp. 124-127) clearly states that he and his friend Gray Barker hoaxed the letter to Adamski as a prank. One of Barker's friends had a father who was a State Department official; Barker and Moseley obtained some official State Dept. letterhead and wrote the letter to fool Adamski. Yet the Wiki article makes no mention of this, but instead acts as if "R.E. Straith" was a real person. Moseley also did a detailed expose of Adamski's claims in the 1950s (mentioned in pp. 63-70 of his memoirs). Among other things, he found that German rocket scientist Walther Riedel had analyzed Adamski's "spaceship" photos and found the "landing struts" were actually General Electric light bulbs and the ship was a fake (the photo is the one shown in the article). Adamski also claimed that well-known Hollywood cinematographer J. Peverell Marley had enlarged the photos and found a "spaceman" in it; when Moseley interviewed Marley he denied ever having enlarged the photo and knew of no one who had. Again, the Wiki article mentions Marley's praise of the UFO photo as looking genuine, but carefully omits that Marley denied having done any analysis of the photo or of having found an alien in it. Several of Adamski's "witnesses" to his meetings with Orthon were interviewed by Moseley and contradicted Adamski's claims. Moseley reprints his entire 1950s investigation into Adamski's claims in the appendix of his 2002 memoir "Shockingly Close to the Truth." Curtis Peebles, an aviation historian at the Smithsonian, offers detailed criticisms of Adamski's stories in his 1994 UFO history book, "Watch the Skies." He notes that Adamski created his "Royal Order of Tibet" in the 1930s as an excuse to make wine for "religious reasons" during Prohibition, and that Adamski later told two followers "I made enough wine for all of Southern California...I was making a fortune." However, when Prohibition ended, "I had to get into this saucer crap." (Peebles, p. 93) I could go on, but the point is there are numerous legitimate criticisms that can be made of Adamski's claims beyond the brief "Criticisms" section listed at the bottom of the article, and, imo, they should be included in the article. And Moseley and Peebles are just two UFO researchers who have found Adamski's claims wanting, others include Jerome Clark and Kevin D. Randle. As it currently stands the article is misleading (such as the R.E. Straith omission) and reads like a promotional piece by an Adamski follower; the article needs to be rewritten to be less biased for Adamski and more neutral. Just a thought. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.145.229.162 (talk) 04:08, 8 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I went ahead and added in the hoax information on the "R.E. Straith" letter to the article - it is simply misleading to use Moseley as a source to describe the letter and then fail to mention Moseley's admission that the letter was a hoax to fool Adamski. 70.145.229.162 (talk) 18:51, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've added this: Adamski's co-author, the irish aristocrat Desmond Leslie made a UFO film Them And The Thing at Castle Leslie in the mid-1950s in which the flying saucer was created by shining mirrors on to a Spanish Renaissance shield suspended from a fishing line. The film was rediscovered in 2010. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-10985156 203.214.68.126 (talk) 03:41, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Golden Medal of Honor" nonsense[edit]

The term "Gold Medal of Honor" suggests some sort of official Papal decoration, which is not the case. The medal shown in the article is a privately-minted commemorative medal issued by Stefano Johnson of Milan to mark the opening of the Second Vatican Council in 1962 (see http://numismatica-italiana.lamoneta.it/moneta/W-F19S/59). As a gold medal it doubtless has some monetary value. But as evidence of a secret meeting of Adamski with Pope John XXIII, it is utterly worthless. 82.132.249.197 (talk) 20:09, 11 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree - as I noted in the above paragraph, a good deal of this article is misleading or inaccurate, and I suspect it has been done deliberately. The article has clearly been written to portray Adamski in the most positive light possible, and any real criticisms have been carefully omitted (as opposed to the pathetic "criticisms" section at the bottom of the article). The article needs a serious rewrite. 70.145.229.162 (talk) 20:30, 11 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'd do it myself, but life's too short. 82.132.249.194 (talk) 20:07, 12 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Same here, it seems like it's the true believers who have all the free time. :) 70.145.229.162 (talk) 03:42, 13 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note, a reference given for the gold medal claim is Spirit In The Sky, the "NRO guide to UFO cults". It doesn't actually say anything about Adamski getting the medal. Moriori (talk) 04:01, 13 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Desmond Leslie[edit]

Not sure why the Desmond Leslie film is mentioned in the criticism, nor why it merits the description a “low budget UFO film”, which implies that it is being compared to large-budget Hollywood films - it is in fact quite obviously a glorified home-movie, with family and friends (including Sir Patrick Moore the astronomer) mugging for the camera in a burlesque on sci-fi and horror movies, with no pretensions of seriousness or professionalism to it. It is a group of people larking around for their own amusement. The title isn’t as given in the article; the “cast” is named (a list of children given as first names only, followed by a general “and The Grown Ups”) follwed by “In”, then a title card appears bearing the legend ‘THEM in the “THING” an X’, which suggests that “them” refers to the ensemble cast, and that the name of the film is “Thing” (the “X” suggests the “X Certificate” of the BBFFC for a horror film). The article also states that the UFO was created by shining light on a shield, when there were several methods, mostly flinging something through the air (quite what isn’t clear), but also using what would seem to be a cut out of the Adamski photo stuck on glass. The shield is used for a “forced perspective” shot, where it is filmed from close to, filling the frame, with the edges held off camera, and the house in the background, making the shield appear to be a large object next to the house. The light flashed onto it (a toy torch in the shape of a “ray-gun” is seen several times in the “production” and may have been called into service) is to make the “flying saucer” pulse with light, at which point the shield is moved up, or the camera moved down to make it appear to rise. At no point is anything done to suggest that the intention is to deceive anyone, as the pantomime reactions of watchers shows they are participating in a joke. The film can be found on-line. Jock123 (talk) 09:26, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the Leslie story is out of place in the Criticisms section, and so it has been moved to a more appropriate spot in the article. Populism (talk) 04:04, 4 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Early life[edit]

The 'Early Life' section states (and takes) as facts that "The "Royal Order of Tibet" was given a government license to make wine for "religious purposes" during Prohibition; Adamski was quoted as saying "I made enough wine for all of Southern California ... I was making a fortune!" However, the end of Prohibition in 1933 also marked the decline of his profitable wine-making business, and Adamski later told two friends that's when he "had to get into this [flying] saucer crap." The source given is Graham Peebles (1993).
The original source for this story -- not quoted -- is Ray and Rex Stanford, who told researcher Jerome Clark in 1978 about their visit with Adamski in 1958 or 1959, when Adamski is claimed to have made these self-incriminating statements, about which Clark wrote the article ‘Startling New Evidence in the Pascagoula and Adamski Abductions’ in UFO Report, vol.6, no.2, August 1978, p.2. However, when researcher Richard Heiden contacted the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in 1977 the answer was that no license to manufacture alcohol had been granted to either the Royal Order of Tibet or to George Adamski (see Heiden's statement from August 2016 here: <groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ufo-collective/TRu5u-mFgzA>).
Research shows that the name 'The Royal Order of Tibet' appears in print for the first time in Adamski's debut publication The Invisible Ocean (self published 1932, p.23). This also indicates that Adamski operated at the time from a studio apartment at 213 South Broadway in Los Angeles, and temporarily from the Hotel 'Castle' Green in Pasadena, before The Royal Order of Tibet moved to the 'Temple of Scientific Philosophy' in Laguna Beach in January 1933. By then, Prohibition had ended. (See Gerard Aartsen, The Sea of Consciousness, BGA Publications 2019; ISBN 978-90-9031695-6)
In short, the "Royal Order as a front for wine distilling during Prohibition" story is demonstrably false.
Also, Ray and Rex Stanford do not have the best track record in terms of reliability, for which, see: Douglas Johnson, ‘Alien-lore Career Achievement Award goes to Ray Stanford’, August 28, 2021, see: http://alienexpanse.com/index.php?threads/alien-lore-career-achievement-award-goes-to-ray-stanford.5699/. As for motives for Adamski's apparent self-incriminating claims, he was known for using “knock-about humour” and the “macho combination of exaggeration and self-deprecation” (Tony Brunt, George Adamski - The Toughest Job in the World, 2010; see; http://www.ufor.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/George-Adamski-The-Toughest-Job-in-the-World-by-Tony-Brunt.pdf), while it's also possible that Ray Stanford, who had a career as a trance medium, didn't take well to Adamski's criticism of trance mediumship. Bga-ams (talk) 09:02, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Prohibition didn't officially end in the USA until December 5, 1933, when the 21st Amendment was ratified, not January 1933 as the above post states. California didn't allow liquor by the drink until a referendum was passed in November 1934. Additionally, the source cited is not "Graham Peebles", but Curtis Peebles. Also, much of the research mentioned above appears to come from fringe and self-published UFO sources and blogs, not the most reliable of sources. 2603:6080:C402:2A45:61FA:2D63:CF0:62F7 (talk) 01:02, 23 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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