Talk:Gerda Hofstätter

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 14:32, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Gerda Hofstatter

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Expanded by Lee Vilenski (talk). Self-nominated at 09:08, 7 July 2019 (UTC).[reply]

  • Article was expanded fivefold within the last seven days, is over the required prose size and has no copyvio concerns. The hooks are interesting and have an inline citation to a seemingly reliable source. QPQ has also been covered. A little concern over the image though, the information is a little vague and I notice on the history that six months ago a user posted an edit summary of "I am the copyright owner of this image - not sure how it came here" but the original uploader claimed it was their own work. Are we sure it's freely licensed? Kosack (talk) 19:48, 7 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Kosack - Not sure. Looking at it, it looks like it comes from some sort of official website. I'd be fine with removing it, especially in this case. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:52, 7 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • It seems all six images in her Commons category may have the same issue and neither the original uploader or the contradicting editor have made any other edits so contacting them seems unlikely. I'd say that the images are questionable at best and wouldn't run it. You can either drop it (from the article also) or maybe start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Did you know if you want to pursue it? Your call. Kosack (talk) 20:00, 7 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oh, no they totally seem dodgy. I'll remove and see what I can do on commons. Thanks for being so thorough. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:03, 7 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • No worries, if you manage to sort one out on Commons before it goes up I'll happily re-review this to include it. Good to go now. Kosack (talk) 20:19, 7 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you. I just thought she was pretty young to receive a key to the city, not to mention being Austria's first championship winner. Restoring tick for ALT1a per Kosack's review. Yoninah (talk) 14:31, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Gerda Hofstätter/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: MrLinkinPark333 (talk · contribs) 22:53, 18 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]


Hello! Thought I review this one as you've been waiting awhile and seems like a straightforward article to review. If you have any comments/concerns during the review, feel free to ping me here.

Lead checkY[edit]

  • Her nickname and date of birth is not mentioned in the following sections, just the infobox. These parts should be included in the article per WP:LEADcheckY
    • Same for her place of birth, but I haven't seen a specific source that states Friesach per this and that. I might have missed it.checkY
  • Hofstätter was the highest ranked European player for two seasons in 2001 and 2002" - needs to be removed as it's no longer stated in the article.checkY
  • "the Austrian Sportswoman of the Year for Carinthia in 1995." - 1993 not 1995checkY
  • "Hofstätter now plays on the WPBA Tour, as she has since 1993." - needs to be updated to say she retired --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:32, 4 December 2019 (UTC)checkY[reply]
    • Done 17:23, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Early life[edit]

  • Which part of the sentence is Inside pool magazine supporting her youth sports? Seems like all of it is referenced by Pool & Billiard.
Moved additional source to info included. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:50, 26 November 2019 (UTC)information Note: - see below.[reply]
  • "Before the age of 18, Hofstätter won the Austrian fencing championship, as well as other international fencing competitions." - Pool & Billiard says she won it during her "youth" and doesn't specifies a specific age. It'd also would contradict the sentence after saying she started playing pool at 15.
Not really, she did both until she was 18. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:50, 26 November 2019 (UTC)information Note:[reply]
Yes, but it sounds odd bouncing saying "before the age of 18" then 15, for chronologically. If "before the age of 18" was rephrased without specifying an age, then it'd make more sense. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:40, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Also, Pool & Billiard only mentions one international fencing competition, not multiple. Resolved
Reworded Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:50, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Hofstätter, however, decided to take up pool at 15, when she joined her first team in Althofen" - "however" would need to be dropped per Editorializing in Words to watch.  Resolved
 Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:50, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Pool & Billard doesn't specify it was her "first" team when she joined for the Althofen team. Resolved
Reworded Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:50, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Having won the event, Hofstätter was given a "key to the city" of Althofen" - I don't think Hofstätter was awarded the key of the city solely because she was the European champion. Specifically per the sentence "Those early accomplishments were recognized" in Pool & Billiard.information Note: - see below.
Reworded Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:50, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In 1990, Hofstätter moved to Sweden to study and compete...(Women's Pool Billiard Association) Classic Tour in 1993." - long sentence that I suggest breaking up into two for grammar, even though it has a semicolon. Resolved
    • "In 1990, Hofstätter moved to Sweden to study and compete" - close paraphrasing of Pool & Billiard per word order. Slight retweaking needed to pass limited wording.information Note: - see below.
Split Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:50, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Close paraphrasing as well in the same source with "to compete in the newly formed WPBA (Women's Pool Billiard Association) Classic Tour in 1993" Resolved
Reworded Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:50, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • The static1.squarespace.com link isn't reliable by itself. As it's part of the WPBA page, I'd swap the source name with the WPBA instead. Unfortunately, Hofstätter is mentioned only in the PDF part, so I couldn't request you to use the WPBA link instead.information Note: - see below.
    • Changed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 22:15, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Hofstätter would actually win the first WPBA event" - "actually" is editorializing that needs to be dropped. Resolved
Dropped. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:50, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Her first WPBA tour win was the Creative Inventions San Francisco Classic, not Brunswick Billiards Atlantic Classic. Resolved
Changed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:50, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Finally, Pool & Billiard Magazine does not state that Hofstätter was the first and only player to win the first WPBA they competed in. New source needed.information Note: - see below.
removed fact. Can readd if a source comes up. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:50, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "She would also win her second and third European championships in 1993...winning the eight-ball and nine-ball events." - this sentence needs two sentences as it sounds disjointed with the commas. Resolved
    • "reaching the final in all three events," - her finals appearance in straight is missing. Resolved
I've reworded for succinctness. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:50, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Also, mentioning that she reached the final in 8-ball and 9-ball is redundant as she won those events. Resolved
    • Finally, per earlier, Billiard Apps doesn't specifiy her wins were European championships. Resolved
That is from the European Championships website. I'll change the link Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:50, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Due to winning these events, she was voted the Austrian player of the year for state of Carinthia" - Inside Pool doesn't suggest she was named player of the year because she won those events.information Note: - see below.
Changed to "after". Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:50, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • "for state of Carinthia" -> for the state of Carinthia Resolved
 Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:50, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Also, BIlliard Apps doesn't have her award, just Inside Pool. Resolved
Removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:50, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In both 2001 and 2002, Hofstätter held the highest European WPA world ranking for two consecutive seasons" - not verified in Pool & Billiard. Resolved
    • Also, "for two consecutive seasons" is redundant as it's already stated it was for 2001 to 2002. Resolved
In sports, a season isn't necessarily a year, so it's not redundant... but I can't find the source where I read that, so I'll remove. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:50, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Additional comments[edit]

  • "In 1987, she won her first Austrian national championship" - Inside Pool doesn't say it was her "first" Austrian championship checkY
  • "In 1990, Hofstätter moved to Sweden to study and compete" - close paraphrasing that needs a tiny tweak.
  • I just spotted the sentence that says she was the first person to win their first WPBA event in Pool & Billiard ("To the surprise of many,"). My mistake.
  • I'm not sure if she was presented the key to the city right after winning the European Pool Championship. It does sound like it was presented the same year she won the championship though.
    • Not sure that's an error though. 17:07, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
    • Well, I was going by exactly after or after. Fair enough. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 22:17, 29 November 2019 (UTC)  Resolved[reply]
  • You might have missed my comment about the squarespace source.checkY
  • Inside Pool doesn't say she received the Austrian player of the year award after winning her second and third European championships. New or Additional source needed.

--MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:16, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Career[edit]

Paragraph one[edit]

  • "Hofstätter's first major title came in 1995, where she entered the Women's WPA World Nine-ball Championship, held in Taipei, Taiwan. She would reach the final, and defeat Vivian Villarreal to win her sole world championship." - various issues with these sentences:
    • Redundancy: mentioning that her first title win came in 1995 and saying that she reached the final and won is redundant. I recommend either saying one or the other. Resolved
    • Neutrality: The phrasing "first major title came in 1995, where she entered" doesn't sound neutral. I think once the redunancy is adjusted, this would be fixed as well. Resolved
    • Accuracy: The World Pool-Billiard Association link is from 2012, so I can't confirm it was her sole championship. Plus WPBA doesn't have her win either. I don't know if Propool.info is reliable though.
  • "She was given the nickname of "G-Force" after her World championship win." - not verified by AZ Billiards. Yes, the website has the nickname, but does not state when she received it. Resolved
  • Not sure why the 2002 world 9 ball championship is being cited for the 2000 world 9 ball championship. Resolved
  • "Hofstätter would win her first minor tournament this season" - AZ Billiards doesn't confirm (well to me) that BCA Open 9-Ball was a minor tournament. I'd drop "minor". Resolved
  • "Both events were won by Karen Corr." - out of scope as this article is about Hofstätter, not Corr. Resolved

Additional points[edit]

  • "She also won her fourth European championship, in the nine-ball event that year." - originally had this in the AZ billiards paywall part, but not applicaable. In any sense, her AZ Billiards profile doesn't have any of her 1995 wins, so this is unconfirmed.
    • Swapped out for the european championships list. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 22:24, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • As this is a nine-ball event, a link to the 9-ball winners would also be sufficient to determine that she won 3 8-ball events before her 4th championship win. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 22:27, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • Well, it is all on the same source. Clicking the radio button doesn't really need a new source. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:30, 1 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
          • The only reason why I noted this is, technically, it's a different url. see 8-ball versus 9-ball with the discipline name in the url. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 19:50, 1 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "defeat Vivian Villarreal" -> defeated for past tense
  • Remaining issue in regards to accuarcy with 1995 being Hofstätter's only world championship (persumed yes) and sourcing with 2012 WPBA and propool.info --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:06, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Actually, this is sourced to date, but the link is broken. I've fixed this. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 22:24, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Let me rephrase that. As Hofstätter competed until 2019, this doesn't confrim that she only won the world championship while she was playing. If there was a list that had the winners to 2019, then it'd be fine. Otherwise "sole" would need to be reworded. Also, I'm not sure if propool.info is a reliable source. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 22:27, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • I've used propool.info on many GAs to this point. It's as reliable as anything else for results and brackets. Changed to "first" Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:29, 1 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Paragraph two[edit]

  • "She would also finish as runner-up at two WPBA tournaments, at the Amway World Open, and the Midwest Classic, losing to Allison Fisher in both finals." - Hofstätter's 2002 season in AZ Billiards does not state she lost to Fisher at both events.information Note:: See below.
  • "In 2003, she would only reach highest position of seventh place, doing so in four events, including the U.S. Open" - "only reach highest position" doesn't sound neutral/grammatically correct. A slight rewording needed. Resolved

Additional points[edit]

  • "In 2002, Hofstätter reached the semi-finals of the world Nine-ball championship again." - I'd drop "again" as it doesn't state it wasn't her first time to the semi-finals.
    • Well, she's won the event... so she must have played in a semi before. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 22:25, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • More paywall issues with 2002 Amway World Open and 2002 Midwest Classic.--MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:33, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Paragraph three checkY[edit]

  • "Since 2005, she has played exclusively on the WPBA Tour, as well as two International Pool Tour events in 2006." - A source that links to Hofstätter's 2005 season is needed as well as the sentence starts with "since 2005" Resolved
    • Changed to 2006 Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 17:34, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • She had not played only for the WPBA in 2005 per this source. Hofstätter played at least one IPT tournament that year, making this statement inaccurate. Resolved
  • " Women's Professional Billiard Association and Billiard Congress of America Hall of Fames in the Greatest Players Category" - Pool & Billiard only has her WPBA induction, not BCA Resolved
  • "As of 2019, she is still competing." - not according to Pool & Billiard which says she retired Resolved
  • "In total, she is a nine-time European champion, and 17-time Austrian national champion" - Pool & Billiard says 11 European championships, not 9.information Note:: see below.
    • Also, Billiard Apps does not support any of the claims, as it only has her 4 8-ball wins. Resolved
      • It does, you just have to select the correct radio button. I've swapped out the ref. Pool and billiard is wrong, as they are including team championships Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 17:34, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Additional points[edit]

  • "Since 2006, she has played" -> she had played (as she's retired now).
    • Actually neither is particularly grammatical. I've changed to "she played"... Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 22:29, 28 November 2019 (UTC)checkY[reply]
  • I see you swapped the source for her 9 time European championships. However, Billiard Apps doesn't have her 17 Austrian championships. checkY

--MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:43, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Championships checkY[edit]

  • Hofstätter's AZ Billiards proifle does not have her Nine Ball world championship. Resolved
  • Hofstätter's AZ Billiards proifle also does not have her European championships.information Note:: see below
    • Based on Pool & Billiard, there should be 11 European championships, not 9. Resolved

Additional points[edit]

Personal life checkY[edit]

  • "Hofstätter is married to Daniel Hofstätter with two children Sophie and Madison." - not verified at Pool & Biiliard.information Note: see below
  • "She is a qualified pilot, having gained a licence in 2010." - not verified at Pool & Biiliard as well.information Note: see below
Additional points[edit]
  • In terms of the 2018 Inside Pool magazine article:
    • Her husband is named Dan, not Daniel, and doesn't have his last name
      • Considering Dan is a shortning of the name Daniel, I don't see an issue. However, I can change to Dan if requested. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:42, 1 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • If you don't mind changing it to Dan, it'd be better. Only reason cause the source doesn't exactly say this, so I can't assume. checkY --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 19:52, 1 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • It's not specified when she gained her pilot's license. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:53, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Paywall issues (AZ billiards)[edit]

These ones I can't verify behind the AZ Billiards paywall. I'll have to request at the Resource Exchange:

  • "A few years later, Hofstätter would reach the semi-final of the WPBA Hawaii Classic in 1998"  Resolved
  • "The following year, Hofstätter finished third at the U.S. Open Nine-ball Championship"  Resolved
  • "The 2000 season saw Hofstätter reach the knockout rounds again at the world Nine-ball championship, reaching the last 16," Resolved
  • "and seventh at the Women's event at the U.S. Open."information Note: - see below
  • "2001 saw Hofstätter finish in the top five at two WPBA events, at the players championship,"information Note: - see below checkY
  • "and Midwest championship."  Resolved
  • "In 2002, Hofstätter reached the semi-finals of the world Nine-ball championship again, before losing to Karen Corr."information Note: - see below
  • "Hofstätter would go on to reach the final at the WPBA West Coast Classic in 2005" Resolved
  • "losing to Kelly Fisher in the final" Resolved
  • "defeating Chang Shu-Han 7-3 in the final." Resolved

Additional paywall sources I'd need access to:

Additional comments[edit]

Thank you for the screenshots. A few issues have come up:

  • 2000 U.S. Open was tied for seventh with Karen Corr, not exactly seventh.
  • While she did reach the semi-finals at the 2002 world Nine-ball championship, I can't verify she lost to Karen Corr as there were presumably two semi-finals. Resolved
  • While she did win the 2010 WPBA San Diego Classic, it doesn't specify that it was her last win. An additional source would be needed to support the sentence fully.
  • In regards to the player's championships, it says Fisher was 7th and that she lost to Lee and Hofstätter. Therefore, I'm not sure if Lee was 5th and Hofstatter was 6th or the other way around. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:10, 28 November 2019 (UTC)checkY[reply]
It's a double-elimination bracket, they both continued in the competition to the last 5. Source added shows just that Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 22:12, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Overall[edit]

  • I'm working on this bit by bit. I'll ping you once this review is done. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 22:53, 18 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Update: This article has various issues. My main concern is the various unverified statements in this article, with most of them showing up in the championships and personal life section. There are other statements that require a slight modification of the sentence to make them 100% accurate. Otherwise, there is also some editorializing, grammar, and close paraphrasing issues. Alternatively, i have to request many of the AZ billiards sources from the Resource Exchange as they are hiding behind a paywall. Therefore, I can not finish the article review until I get access to them. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 17:00, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Lee Vilenski: Well, since I haven't got a response from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cue sports, I might as well ping you to let you know that I've reviewed all except for the AZ Billiards subscription ones. I'll put this on hold for a week and reassess from there. Hopefully, I'll be able to check the AZ billiards ones within a week. P.S. I've seen you're wikibonked according to your userpage (didn't know that was a thing :/ ). I'll leave it up to you what you want to do next :) --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 03:22, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I have an agreement with the owner to view the content. I can send you either screenshots or quotes from the sources in question. Yeah, I'm pretty burned out, and I have a few issues at home that make my time a lot smaller than it once was. I'll start working on this one soon. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 18:19, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Lee Vilenski: Screenshots would be preferable so I can read and verify the sources. Take all the time you need. Your mental health and home issues are much more important than a GA Review :) --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 19:52, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Update[edit]

  • @Lee Vilenski: As tomorrow will be a week this GA Review was put on hold, I'll do a recap of what's left. On one hand there's a couple of accuracy issues: "first" Austiran championship, the url for her 1995 European 9-ball win, and husband's name. Alternativelly, there are some wording that I'm debating whether it's fine or not: "Before the age of 18" before "take up pool at 15," and "reached the semi-finals.... again". Finally, I'm looking into whether propool.info is reliable or not. In terms of stuff that won't effect the GA review but thought I should ask: I'm wondering why some events in the article are in italics while some aren't. More curious than anything. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:39, 1 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • No idea. I think I have a blind spot on italics. I'll remove them. propool.info is used on a tonne of other GA articles, I've never seen it not be listed as anything other than reliable. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 17:23, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Lee Vilenski: Updated the review as i just checked over the lead. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:37, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • On one hand there's a couple of accuracy issues: "first" Austiran championship, the url for her 1995 European 9-ball win, and husband's name.
    • So, I managed to fish out an archive of the Austrian National website (which for whatever reason is pretty much dead now), which has all of the results on: [8]. 21:53, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
    • Name changed for Husband Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:54, 14 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • @Lee Vilenski: Nice find for the Austrian championship website! Cause of this, you don't need the adjacent Inside Pool Magazine ref as it doesn't support it. Also, the other thing is the ref for her 1995 European 9-ball win. Either you could use the W9 url or swap for a different source you already used. I've no preference. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 00:15, 15 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • The only time I mention her 95 European championships win is in the championships table, isn't it? It has a source to the European bio and has the championship win in it. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:11, 15 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Lee Vilenski: I'm referring to "She also won her fourth European championship, in the nine-ball event that year." in the professional career paragraph. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:05, 15 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oh, MrLinkinPark333, I have cited to the official website detailing all of her wins. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:11, 15 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • No worries. Sometimes it's not obvious what the issue is. I think I can now pass this article as the rest seems fine with wording. In regards to Propool.info, it seems fine as the information checks out. Well done!. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:32, 15 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • Thanks for sticking with it through my slow times. Cheers for your review. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:49, 15 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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