Talk:Gerda Taro

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Untitled[edit]

The spanish village near where she was killed was "Brunete", not "Brunette". I corrected it. I also added as references the french translation of the german book, and a new french book. Of course, she is also central in books about Capa, like his autobiography, and some other biographies.

She does not appear at all in Capa's autobiography, which covers a period beginning after her death. Rwintle (talk) 17:38, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Circumstances of death[edit]

Probably the account of Taro's death is not worded correctly. Cf. http://www.elangelcaido.org/comunicacion/028/028gerdataro.html

WikiProject class rating[edit]

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 16:21, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Evaluation[edit]

All information in the article appears to be backed by (at least) one appropriate reference, if not more than one, further supporting the statements made on Taro. Unfortunately, some of the links to other Wikipedia articles link to topics that still don't have their own Wikipedia page. A few dead links are also seen in the references, which do take away some credibility since the information that cite these links can't entirely be trusted. All information in the article is relevant to Gerda Taro, however, it's interesting to note that some of her early history appears to be told through the eyes of Robert Capa. Another interesting point to note is that the Wikipedia article on Robert Capa includes the pop culture reference of Alt-J's song Taro while this article does not. The song touches down roughly on the relationship between the two figures, but isn't entirely accurate. It is, however, still a cultural reference made to the figure. Vdunn (talk) 01:17, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi.
  • "some of the links to other Wikipedia articles link to topics that still don't have their own Wikipedia page" – The red links you speak of are for Alliance Photo, Züricher Illustrierte, Ce Soir, Volks-Illustrierte, Fernando Olmeda, and Adriana V. López. It may very well not be of any importance that articles are written on these topics.
  • "A few dead links are also seen in the references, which do take away some credibility since the information that cite these links can't entirely be trusted" – It is no matter that these links are dead as they may be able to be rescued from the Internet Archive / Wayback Machine, see Help:Using the Wayback Machine and Wikipedia:Link rot
  • "the Wikipedia article on Robert Capa includes the pop culture reference of Alt-J's song Taro while this article does not" – I removed that inane fact from this article, as per WP:TRIVIA. I have now done so for the Capa article too. Thank you for pointing it out. -Lopifalko (talk) 15:53, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Vdunn and Lopifalko -- At this moment, there are no red links and no dead links in the article. One source explained what Volks-Illustrierte was, so its description as the exile edition (as Hitler took over Germany) and a wiki link to the article on the main version is given. Most of the foreign language titles are translated to English, too. The Alt-J song is mentioned in the Legacy section, though the recovered negatives are more interesting. The source articles are rich in information and detail, save for the names of her parents. What is missing in my view is a few more of her images and a concise description of her photojournalism style. Her photos take advantage of black and white by using images with sharp contrast, and she gets into the action of the war, up so close with the composition of her photos. Having the focus of so many readers from the Google doodle has sharpened up the article, I think. What a woman, such intensity of life, in such a short life. --Prairieplant (talk) 04:46, 2 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, exactly, it has been "sharpened" in recent days, thanks to numerous people. I have not been following the work but I have cast my eye over it now, copyedited, made some alterations and added some sources. As you say, there is still more that could be done. -Lopifalko (talk) 06:23, 2 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
More images by/about Taro are available on Wikipedia Commons: see here. It is likely that many other of her (published) photographs have fallen into public domain too, at least per US copyright law. More samples can be added to the article once it is developed enough. Abecedare (talk) 21:52, 2 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I just looked at page views, over 550,000. Fairly staggering to me. I was so impressed with the page views for the orchestra conductor and man of peace, Kurt Masur. This exceeds that number. It makes the Logarithmic view feature on page views, a useful feature. --Prairieplant (talk) 22:51, 2 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Slow travel[edit]

Tanks move slowly and it is hard to be run over by one. More evidence is needed here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.53.52.160 (talk) 11:48, 30 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing about the Alt-J song taro?[edit]

The Alt-J song Taro was definitely made after Gerda Taro. Why is this not included in the legacy section? 213.122.120.151 (talk) 21:18, 7 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Because the Alt-J song "Taro" is not notable. General Ization Talk 21:24, 7 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And yet it's notable enough to be included in the article for Robert Capa? 213.122.120.151 (talk) 21:45, 7 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

First what, exactly?[edit]

The lede currently includes this statement:

She is regarded as the first woman photojournalist to cover the front lines of a war and to have died while doing so.

I wonder whether the following stronger statement was intended:

She is regarded as the first woman photojournalist to cover the front lines of a war and the first to have died while doing so.

Is this stronger statement also true? Or was there an earlier woman photojournalist who covered the front lines of a war, but survived? TypoBoy (talk) 11:14, 1 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

See Florence MacLeod Harper. Also https://www.loc.gov/item/2005676177/. General Ization Talk 12:26, 1 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'll clarify that statement, then.--Gorpik (talk) 13:06, 1 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation[edit]

How is her surname Pohorylle pronounced? 108.65.32.10 (talk) 18:34, 1 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Early years and education[edit]

@Prairieplant: in regards to this query. I can see only parts of Schaber et al on Google Books but here are the relevant bits:

  • Page 11: "Gerta Pohorylle came into the world in 1910 in Stuttgart, Germany. her parents had only recently immigrated [sic] from Eastern Galicia and throughout their lives remained attached to the culture of the shtetl."
  • Page 12: "To polish her education, she spent a year in a Swiss boarding school, then attended business college in Stuttgart, choosing Spanish as her third foreign language."
  • Page 162 (leaving out the diacritics): "1917-29 Attends the Koning-Charlotte Realschule in Stuttgart; the Internat Villa Florissant in Lausanne, Switzerland; and the Hohere Handelsschule (Business College) in Stuttgart"

It would be great if someone could get hold of the complete book. Abecedare (talk) 21:38, 2 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Abecedare, excellent! I added the page numbers. I also added a couple of sentences in Legacy about the importance of finding that suitcase of negatives to knowing more about her style of photography by knowing which photos were hers, and which were taken by Capa. I included a quote from the curator of the exhibition in NYC, from the Lee article. I hope someone better in the words of the art of photojournalism can build on that. Yes, I saw the photos in Wikimedia Commons, and thought one or two could easily be added. One expects photographs in an article about a famous photographer, I think. Another language of Wikipedia identified one of the photos now in the article (men carrying stretcher) as one of the re-discovered negatives, printed. French or Spanish Wikipedia, but how did anyone know that? From the exhibition? --Prairieplant (talk) 22:22, 2 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nice work so far. Two quick points:
  • Not sure of the basis for the the claim that that stretcher photograph is among the ones recently discovered. Could be the ICP Catalogue, or could be one of the Spanish language sources. In any case, we'll need to verify it ourselves before adding it to the article (It could also effect the copyright status, since I'm not sure if previously unpublished work is deemed to be in public domain 70 years after the creators death; the law in the area is complex)
  • Consider using the {{sfn}} template for books that are repeated cited. That way the page numbers for individual citation can be easily displayed w/o repeating the complete bibliographic entry each time.
I'll try to lend a hand too, perhaps over the weekend. Fascinating subject! Abecedare (talk) 01:39, 3 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Abecedare, I think that those newly found negatives had been printed before, at least that was the impression I got from descriptions in sources saying that finding the negatives all on one roll of film (or the negatives on contact sheets) helped distinguish a photo attributed to Robert Capa (the both of them) when they were not caring about he or she, but wanting to be published and paid, to either Gerda Taro or Robert Capa separately. I hope I said that clearly. So the copyright issue would not arise from negatives that were already in print in Life Magazine or any other of the publications accepting their film or their prints. (I know how newspapers in the US got the photos from local photographers in the age of film, but I am not so sure how it worked for international photographers. Locally, the photographers gave up the whole roll of film for the newspaper to decide if it would use any of the images, then settled credit and payment, and returned the film. Easy to do locally and I knew a photographer who did this. Internationally, during a war, that is something else.) It is the attribution that changes, not the date of the first printing of the image, which I believe is what determines copyright for photographs from film negatives. That is worth a bit more research, like all important topics. For just one source with two pages, I took the easiest route. My second easiest route is rp format, showing the page number in the text. With a bibliography list of one book, it seems hardly worth the harvnb method, to me. --Prairieplant (talk) 06:08, 4 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the additional information about the newly discovered photographs/negatives. Unless I am distracted by other on/off-wiki matters over this weekend, I'll try to look up the sources I had glanced at earlier this week, and see if there is other material that can be added to the article. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 14:46, 4 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Leica[edit]

What Was The Leica Camera Gerda Used in the Battle of Brunete? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.91.201.196 (talk • contribs) 04:38, August 4, 2018 (UTC)

Not sure we have that information in any of the accessible sources. But I'll keep an eye out for it the next time I consult them. Abecedare (talk) 14:48, 4 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Greta Garbo[edit]

Was Gerda a Fan of Greta Garbo Which Was Why She adopted the professional name of "Gerda Taro" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.91.203.113 (talk) 01:42, 24 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Are you saying that she was? If so, you'll have to provide a reliable, published source for this. Or are you asking if she was? If so, a better place would be Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities. -- Hoary (talk) 02:48, 24 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'm Saying If She Was a Fan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.91.203.113 (talk) 03:58, 24 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Gerda Taro - Nazis and National Socialist German Workers Party[edit]

What is the problem with just using Nazi party and Nazis, as it is the common name? Mztourist (talk) 03:38, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Mztourist Both names are correct and both are in the article now. National Socialist German Workers Party, in my imperfect knowledge, is the term used when that party started up. As the article discusses decisions made in the 1930s, why not include both terms? Plus when I hear news programs from Germany but broadcast in English, I hear the term National Socialist used, possibly more than Nazi. Here is the Etymology section of the article on the party, which strengthens my wish to use both names. "Etymology

The term "Nazi" derives from the name given in German to a party member Nationalsozialist (German pronunciation: [natsi̯oˈnaːlzotsi̯aˌlɪst]) and was coined in response to the German term Sozi (pronounced [ˈzoːtsiː]), an abbreviation of Sozialdemokrat (member of the Social Democratic Party of Germany).[17][18] Members of the party referred to themselves as Nationalsozialisten (National Socialists), rarely as Nazis. The term Parteigenosse (party member) was commonly used among Nazis, with the feminine form Parteigenossin used when it was appropriate.[19]
The term was in use before the rise of the party as a colloquial and derogatory word for a backward peasant, characterising an awkward and clumsy person. It derived from Ignaz, being a shortened version of Ignatius,[20][21] a common name in Bavaria, the area from which the Nazis emerged. Opponents seized on this and shortened the party's name in intentional association to the long-time existing Sozi to the dismissive "Nazi".[21][22]
In 1933, when Adolf Hitler assumed power of the German government, usage of the designation "Nazi" diminished in Germany, although Austrian anti-Nazis continued to use the term derogatorily.[18] The use of "Nazi Germany" and "Nazi regime" was popularised by anti-Nazis and German exiles abroad. Thereafter, the term spread into other languages and eventually was brought back to Germany after World War II.[22] In English, the term is not considered a slang word, and has such derivatives as Nazism and denazification." End of quote from Wikipedia article. Does that make sense to you, this view of mine? --Prairieplant (talk) 03:59, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I know both are correct, but think most readers would understand and identify Nazi (particularly Nazi Germany) more than National Socialist, so why confuse the issue by using a less common name? I don't care about the etymology and regard that as irrelevant. Mztourist (talk) 04:07, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Well, Mztourist I do care about the history, and both names are there now, so readers of the article can learn that the party had a typical political party name when her family decided to leave Germany, as well as the short, somewhat insulting name in use later. For what it is worth, I did not write that particular text originally, but I left it as it was because I thought it was clear and accurate for a short biography of a short life. I do not think it is too heavy a lesson to learn, that the political party that was the basis of Hitler's government, his Third Reich, had a long name, more than 4 letters. When a group was known by both names, I think both are appropriate in a Wikipedia article. You prefer the one short name, I get that. Both names are in the article about Gerda Taro, which is why I hoped we could let this rest, with both names clearly linked, and wiki linked to the article that will explain both names. And then focus on her amazing photography. Peace. --Prairieplant (talk) 05:49, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I care deeply about history, just not the etymology of Nazi. Neither I, nor I'm sure very few other users or readers care about Nazi being a "somewhat insulting name" and it should be used per WP:Commonname Mztourist (talk) 07:59, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I read WP:COMMONNAME and I do not see where we cannot have both names of the party in this article. The article on the Nazi party opens with the full name of the party. I thought it was a good compromise to have both terms and to clearly indicate the two names mean the same political party, but you still disagree. Mztourist. I think we need some arbitrators or other voices to enter this discussion. I have moved it from my talk page, where it began, to the talk page of the article. I think the bottom line question is this: Can this article use both the long name –National Socialist German Workers Party– and the short name –Nazi Party– for the political party that Gerda Taro left Germany to avoid?
I am pinging some recent editors on this article, in hopes of reaching a consensus.Dorsetonian General Ization Lopifalko Beyond My Ken All Hallow's Wraith Superp Andreldritch Willondon Abecedare Rqiang84 With some discussion, we can reach an agreement. --Prairieplant (talk) 09:02, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Gerda Taro Street in Madrid[edit]

In his recent change comment, Lopifalko asks whether the City Council of Madrid just decided to give Taro's name to a street or they actually named it. It is a valid question, but the answer is quite long and probably uninteresting for the article.

In May 2017, in application of a national law, the council agreed on a list of 52 streets and squares whose name should be changed because they honoured (mostly) people related with Francoist Spain or the rebellion in the Spanish Civil War, providing alternative names for them. One of these streets was to receive the new name Gerda Taro. But the list was challenged before the courts, which led to a lengthy process before those changes could be applied. A few names were actually removed from the list before, one year later, the street plates could be actually changed, even though the new names were immediately used in some places (e.g. Google Maps displayed the new names, which led to some confusion because the street plates still displayed the old ones). But now Gerda Taro street exists and has its correct street plate.

So, rather than writing all this explanation in the article, I've just added a second reference for the moment when the street plates were actually changed. I could not find any references in English, unfortunately.--Gorpik (talk) 10:04, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the explanation Gorpik. How about something like this instead: "In 201x the City Council of Madrid named a street after Taro."? Because presumably the important action is the actual naming, but correct me if I'm wrong. -Lopifalko (talk) 10:35, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you; the problem is that I don't really know when was the street name changed. I don't know if the council changed the official street name in 2017, but withheld the plate change till the legal challenges were resolved, or the actual street name change was delayed too until 2018. The sources I have read do not clarify this point.--Gorpik (talk) 11:47, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Gorpik, Lopifalko In Spanish, it is Calle Gerda Taro, and it shows on a google map, which might show up here. I added some words in the article to indicate the location of the short street, 16 km (not as the bird flies, but as road goes) northwest of Madrid's center along route A6. Get off it at exit 13, to cross over that highway to the other side, turning onto Avenida de la Victoria, and then turn onto Calle Gerda Taro I did not put the distance in, just the direction. I think it is at the base of the mountain, where the royal hunting ground is preserved, and possibly in the Fuencarral-El Pardo district, but I have never been to Madrid and do not know the geography too well, so I did not mention any of that. Perhaps you can improve the wording about where the street is. --Prairieplant (talk) 08:44, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't really think we need that much detail for this article, but OK.--Gorpik (talk) 09:08, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. This is a very minor snippet in the life of Taro. I think this is adequate: "In 2017 the City Council of Madrid decided to name a street in the city after her, Calle Gerda Taro (Gerda Taro Street)." -Lopifalko (talk) 10:16, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Well, edit it as you like. I thought it was a big step for Spain, to change away from honoring the Franco folks, and now honor her. --Prairieplant (talk) 09:53, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This is interesting. Sorry, I didn't stop to think about the significance. Can you find sources to support mentioning this? -Lopifalko (talk) 09:55, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Lopifalko The idea was from what Gorpik posted above, with sources in Spanish, a language I cannot read and understand, alas. I found this article from Reuters in 2018 in English, and I suppose Gerda Taro would be an "illustrious woman" in the terms of the article. It is this– Dowsett, Sonya (April 27, 2018). "Madrid removes Franco-era place names of streets". Reuters World News. Retrieved May 14, 2019. Here are two other sources, from 2016, explaining why women were important for the new street names, though Taro's name is not included specifically in either article.[1][2] Any good sources among these three? --Prairieplant (talk) 10:25, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This source, The Local, has a map where names will be changed in Madrid, and I believe the leftmost marker is Calle Gerda Taro. [3] --Prairieplant (talk) 10:36, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Prairieplant I will have a look via Googls Translate when I next get a chance. -Lopifalko (talk) 12:41, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]


References

  1. ^ O'Sullivan, Feargus (November 23, 2016). "The Women Replacing Spain's Franco-Era Street Names". City Lab. Retrieved May 14, 2019.
  2. ^ Worley, Will (December 4, 2016). "Spain getting rid of streets named after fascist leaders, dedicating them to women instead". The Independent. Retrieved May 14, 2019.
  3. ^ "Madrid begins renaming streets that honour Franco regime". AFP The Local. April 27, 2018. Retrieved May 14, 2019.

Image from Gerda Taro Platz in Stuttgart?[edit]

I looked in Wikimedia commons, found no images of the steles from Gerda Taro Platz in Stuttgart. There is an image for another sculpture in Stuttgart that says it is at Gerda Taro Platz, but is not the steles installed in 2014, rather a piece photographed in 2013. There are 9 metal steles, each with a letter of her name cut out; it is a good image. A search for "Gerda Taro Platz" comes up with images of this, but I am not sure if we can use them. I think the article would be improved by an image of the sculpture, when her home town decided to honor her, if we can find one. I looked at the article in German Wikipedia de:Gerda Taro, but there was not a photo there either. Well, they have the photo of the other sculpture by Erich Hauser, not the steles. --Prairieplant (talk) 22:36, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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