Talk:Gerlin Bean

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Gerlin Bean draft[edit]

My helpers at the tea house were right, there are not enough sources for Gerlin Bean to have her own biography page. So I have made a new section on the British Black Panthers main page called Women and the British Black Power Movement and have mentioned her there. She was not a woman in red but nevertheless deserves recognition according to fellow activists of the era. User: Balance Person Balance person (talk) 09:53, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Balance Person you are kidding, right? I have no idea who told you that, but it is very clear you got bad information. Ask here, not the tea house about women's notability. She has been called "The Mother of the [British Black Feminist and radical] Movement"[1], instrumental in the founding of the Brixton Black Women's Group,[2][3],[4] set up the Black Women's Action Committee of the Black Unity and Freedom Party,[5] founder of OWAAD,[6],[7] fundamental influence of black feminism,[8],[9] community activist and dedicated black nationalist.[10] She developed the Ahfiwe School in London to combat scholastic underachievement.[11] When Zimbabwe gained independence in 1983, she went there to set up government programs for women and children.[12],[13] In Jamaica, she was the chair of the gender section of the Council for Voluntary Social Services[14] and managed the 3D Projects on disability.[15] She has written articles about disability[16], given lectures at the University of the West Indies,[17] (where she apparently earned as master's degree),[18] has given community seminars,[19],[20], founded a school for children with disabilities,[21] served on the St. Catherine's Parish Council, [22] and has served on Jamaica's delegation reporting to OHCHR on children's welfare issues[23] She has been featured in articles[24], and presentations[25],[26], was one of the honorees of the 2014 exhibit "400 Years of African Women Resistance Leaders"[27] and one of the women featured in a sculpture by Wijnand De Jonge and exhibited at the Guildhall Art Gallery in 2017.Gale A480639454 That took about 20 minutes to find. I have no doubt whatsoever a Good Article can be created, but it will likely need someone who also has access to British sources to help (Dangles carrot to Mujinga, who recently worked on Olive Morris taking her to Featured Article status and who I know has access to Brixton archives). I'm more than happy to collaborate with you on it. SusunW (talk) 16:42, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wow! This is wonderful . Thank you so much, SusunW! My text on the British Black Panthers main page was instantly deleted anyway by Deanna as apparently I got my paraphrasing very wrong. So I am just learning from that editor/administrator about that (their comments are posted on my talk page) and the text is anyway now gone. I would be absolutely delighted to collaborate with you and Mujinga on a page for Gerlin Bean. You would need to know though that I am a beginner here and only just finding my way as you will see from my user page. I don't even know how you collaborate on pages in Wikipedia. But if you had the patience, I would be very happy to chip in if and where I could. Balance person (talk) 17:43, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Balance person you can just click on the link I made above and contribute as you like. We will need to coordinate when we each work on it so we don't trip on each other's fingers SusunW (talk) 17:58, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'll put the "in use" template on when I am working and take it off when I am not. That way you'll know. You can do the same. SusunW (talk) 18:01, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. But...er...sorry, how do I get to the draft page you are making? I cannot see any links in your message? Balance person (talk) 18:09, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Push the link that is the title of your post here, "Gerlin Bean draft". SusunW (talk) 19:09, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Balance person I'm out for the day if you want to work on it. SusunW (talk) 22:01, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the hint about the link!
I'm out too but have just had a look. You have included everything I had found out for my (now deleted) text. So, I have just smoothed the odd word of your text here or there. Please revert to your own original text if you do not like my few changes. I don't know if you have this reference on your list? Winston Trew, Black for a Cause… Not Just Because… The case of the ‘Oval 4’ and the story of Black Power in 1970s Britain, London, 2010. I found the Twitter scan too with the Bean interview but understand we can't use Twitter as a source but the Shrew reference can surely still stand? Balance person (talk) 09:37, 22 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Balance person Thanks for that reference. I'll add it to the list of things to work in. Yes, Shrew is valid because it is an edited journal, but social media platforms allow anyone and everyone to post and there is no one who curates the material. This is a little different because it is not a random posting on a social media site by someone who is giving their opinion on something, but rather the social media site is serving as a host of someone else's material. That said, I'd rather not tempt someone to delete the reference if we can find another host site. SusunW (talk) 14:32, 22 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I can understand that. I have looked but can't find one yet. And I just found these. You probably know them already?
Newer leads
https://www2.calmview.co.uk/BCA/CalmView/Overview.aspx?src=DServe.Catalog
https://www.lsbu.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/114685/african-caribbean-women-post-diaspora-contexts-working-paper.pdf
https://www.facebook.com/childrenfirstagency/photos/as-we-continue-tributethursdays-today-we-highlight-our-board-chairman-ms-gerlin-/887468901662995/
(I know we cant use FBook but it is just so nice to see GBs face!)
is.gov.jm/sexual-health-programme-for-persons-with-disabilities/
Balance person (talk) 17:20, 22 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Balance person The link to the black cultural archives (I haven't yet looked at the others) is fantastic! It gives information on her time in Zimbabwe that I haven't been able to locate anywhere else. Thank you. We should probably move this conversation to the draft article talk page and continue it there which I will do in a minute. The FB page gives us a contact point, even if we can't use it as a reference, which might help us secure a photograph. SusunW (talk) 17:53, 22 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. There are some academic journals that discuss her work. I have access to them through my university library. See below.4meter4 (talk) 17:48, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Longley, Oumou (November 2021). "Olive and me in the archive: a Black British woman in an archival space". Feminist Review. 129 (1): 123-137.
  • Narayan, John (September 2019). "British Black Power: The anti-imperialism of political blackness and the problem of nativist socialism". The Sociological Review. 67 (5): 945-967.
  • Lewis, Gail ; Hemmings, Clare ; Hemmings, Clare ; Eloit, Ilana (December 2019). "'Where might we go if we dare': moving beyond the 'thick, suffocating fog of whiteness' in feminism". Feminist Theory. 20 (4): 405-421.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
4meter4 Thank you! Please feel free to add info as well. I've only barely begun, but have written a lede summary from the earlier source search. SusunW (talk) 17:58, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Does anyone know how to get this twitter download of the 1971 Shrew interview in another format. 1) it's tiny, and 2) twitter as a host is no bueno. SusunW (talk) 17:58, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry! I didn't realise that there could be an edit conflict on the talk page as well as on the draft page! Mea Culpa. Just wanted to say.....Just a thought about dates. If Bean moved to Surrey, England at the age of nineteen, that was some time before she had her daughter at twenty in 1960. And then the text at the moment says that from the time Jennifer was six-months-old, so that Bean could work, she arranged foster care for her daughter with a local family. Does this mean that she had the baby in England for a while and then sent the baby home to a Jamaica local family? Or that she was in London for a year, had the baby, and then left the baby in care in the UK? Not quite clear at the moment. Right, I will get out now before I make any more clashes! Sorry! Balance person (talk) 18:19, 22 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Balance person She left Jennifer in Surrey (England) with a local family in Surrey (England). The interview doesn't indicate that those people were relatives. She moved to London, okay Paddington, but I think that's the same. Somewhere in all those links I'm still working through she says she considers herself Jamaican, but Jennifer sees herself as British with Jamaican roots, because she was born and raised in England. SusunW (talk) 19:52, 22 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's in the Black Cultural Archives link. "Even though Gerlin lived in England for over thirty years it wasn't the same, she never felt at home like she does in Jamaica. People from England, such as Gerlin's daughter, see England as their home. It's what they know. [01:03:23]" SusunW (talk) 20:20, 22 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry I wasn't clear. I only wanted to query the sequence of dates. So I have removed a clause (in the early life section) which I think avoids the date problem. See what you think. Balance person (talk) 09:30, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hello 4meter4 Thanks for the leads. I have tried to get access to the sources you mention but as I am not connected to a university I can only see an abstract for each and no mention of Gerlin Bean in the abstracts. Would you be able to delve into the sources and add what you can to the draft? Thanks if you can! Balance person (talk) 17:20, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

More possible leads. http://etheses.dur.ac.uk/11430/1/The_Women's_Liberation_Movement_Full_E-Thesis.pdf?DDD17+ (see pages 105 and 194) And the article, ‘Mobilising Parents of Children with Disabilities in Jamaica and the English Speaking Caribbean’ by Gerlin Bean and Marigold J. Thorburn There are also 16 mentions of Bean in http://ndl.ethernet.edu.et/bitstream/123456789/70485/1/65.pdf.pdf (If you just do the ‘F for find’ key and type in her name.) Don't know if any of those are helpful. Thanks for all the work you are doing on GB. Balance person (talk) 10:04, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think that is all I can find and add to the text here and there. But I have not checked out the sources kindly offered by User:4meter4. I could do that next unless you are in the middle of it? Also if you have any left over leads that you would like me to check out, just say. Thanks. Balance person (talk) 16:03, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Balance person sorry, been out all morning because of real life stuff. Will look it over and start again. Feel free to add whatever you have access to. I have no idea where you are, but we will (like anyone else) have different access to sources, depending on our location. For the record, I am in Mexico and I don't do British English, so when we get it to a place where we think we are finished, someone will have to "Britishise" it. SusunW (talk) 17:02, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ah yes, real life!
I am in the UK so very happy to 'Britishise' if necessary later on! Have asked 4meter4 if they can help with the sources they mentioned as I can't get access to more than the abstracts. Balance person (talk) 17:23, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Perfect. Slowly but surely, we make progress. What I truly enjoy about this platform is both the opportunity to learn (I think I always learn more from writing an article than I impart) and work with others. SusunW (talk) 17:53, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I swear, ever source I open brings new aspects of her career/activism. I am still completely shocked that someone at the Teahouse told you she was not notable. SusunW (talk) 19:28, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm done for the day. I cannot find a copy of Trew's Black for a Cause that I can access from here. Perhaps you have access from there? SusunW (talk) 22:06, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
OK, it seems I would have to buy the Trew book! And it seems that Trew was really used to back up the statement, 'Women were a minority in the early stages of Black Power organising in Britain (though notably, the Fasimbas, a South-East London Black youth organisation set up in 1968, had a majority female membership' which is text I had wanted to re-use/quote/paraphrase when I originally placed GB on the British Black Panthers main page, under a new section about women and the Black Power movement . Now that GB is being on her own page, I doubt we need this bit about the Fasimbas or about lack of visible women early on. But you may not agree? I am out for a bit now. Balance person (talk) 08:47, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I see no point in you having to buy the book. I think between the other sources we have we've shown she was part of the Black power movement and why women moved out of the political organizations and into women's movements. SusunW (talk) 20:15, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi! Well, to be fair, people at the teahouse didn't say GB wasn't notable, they said they wondered if I would find enough sources to cite. And it is the case that, initially, most leads went back to the scan on Twitter of the Shrew article. But anyway, we build and we build!
In "wikispeak" not enough sources = not notable. That's why I said, if you are writing about women, ask at Women in Red. It generally takes a deeper dive than a google search to find sources about women. SusunW (talk)
I love this working with other people too! Thanks for your patience with this beginner!
I will investigate the Trew lead and let you know if I find anything. Balance person (talk) 08:32, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Balance person, so I've finished working in the links I found. I've written to W. Chris Johnson at the University of Toronto to see if he will share his conference papers. I'm searching for an e-mail address for Bean, as I want to make sure that her sexuality won't be an issue if it's in the article (she was open about it when she wasn't in Jamaica, but it is not a good climate for LGBT people in Jamaica, so we may need to take it out). I'd also like to get a photo from her, but gotta find a means of contact first. SusunW (talk) 20:15, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I definitely take your point about asking at Women in Red. Will do so from now on! Thanks.
And that is very good to take care of whether or not to mention GBs sexuality. Good thinking. Phew. I think GB is on Linkedin but I am not ...would that help for contact if you know someone who is? Balance person (talk) 21:23, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Me either. I'm still searching. I have a lot of friends who are activists throughout the Caribbean and am hoping one of them can pull something out of a hat for me. SusunW (talk) 22:19, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, I have just read all your recent additions. What an amazing amount you have found and sifted in. I could learn a lot from your research skills! Great! Balance person (talk) 21:30, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Balance person I may have been researching since long before you were born. LOL The biggest issue I have is that there are no libraries here and I am often blocked from materials. Fortunately the WP library allows me access to many things and if I can't find them there the Resource Exchange can help if another editor can't. In that regard, 4meter4 I've found access to Longley and Narayan, but I cannot find Lewis & Hemmings. Can you help? SusunW (talk) 22:19, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, I will take a look.4meter4 (talk) 22:26, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Susan, do we have a draft article to work on anywhere, or are we just adding source information here? I can add cogent material if we have a running draft text. If the latter is the case, what would be most helpful for me to pull from the article for the two of you? (some quotes? a summation with citations?) Unfortunately, I think it's illegal for me to share out a PDF of the journal article with you all as neither of you are faculty or students at my university.4meter4 (talk) 22:33, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

4meter4, just click on the tab at the top of this page that says "User Page" and voilà there will be what I've done so far. I'm out for the night, but I'll return tomorrow. SusunW (talk) 22:37, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That seems obvious now that you pointed that out. lol. Thanks. I will read the article today, and will add what is of value to your current text on your draft page tomorrow.4meter4 (talk) 22:41, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Just one phrase in the text that I am not sure about so far is 'because the Black Unity and Freedom Party was authoritarian and intolerant, holding a strict ideological view, members often felt....' Having read the guidance on Wiki about neutrality of tone, I wonder if these adjectives are too strong? You will know for sure. Balance person (talk) 07:02, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Balance person Because this is a statement of opinion, it might be better to use quotes from the source rather than original prose. Using quoted text with an attributed author adds some distance/ neutrality to the presentation of that opinion.4meter4 (talk) 12:34, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Really good point, I'll take a look at the source and give it an attribution. I really appreciate everyone's input in making the article clear and objective. SusunW (talk) 13:53, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nice work everyone! I'll be happy to read through this article at a later point, for now just on the Shrew reference from Twitter - looks like the Feminist Library in London holds copies (catalogue) and I might pass by London in June or July if it helps to check that or anything else there. Mujinga (talk) 12:27, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ooh, Mujinga that would be great! I have some feelers out to people who are more technical than me to see if they can convert that link to another host, but you know me and that is way outside of my wheelhouse. SusunW (talk) 13:53, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Mujinga Thanks so much. I just checked the list of the periodicals archived at the feminist library and they do have some copies of Shrew but don't say which they might have. We can read the scan of the Gerlin B interview ourselves but, as we can't cite twitter as a source, nobody else could read it to check our facts/text. Thanks so much for offering to read the text once we are further along. So great to have more eyes on it! Balance person (talk) 16:24, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Update[edit]

Well, I haven't found an e-mail for Bean, but I did find one for 3D Projects and have written to see if we can make contact with her. SusunW (talk) 15:30, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The email returned as undeliverable, so I then looked at the Facebook post and found an email for Children First Jamaica and have written them. We'll see what happens. SusunW (talk) 15:44, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, fingers crossed! Balance person (talk) 16:27, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
An update of a sort. I've heard nothing from Professor Johnson. So frustrating! Why is it that almost every women academic I email responds and is eager to share information, but I have never had a male academic even bother to respond? *ugh* Also, I've heard nothing from Bean herself. I did speak with a couple of the main LGBT activists in Jamaica. Their take on it is that her involvement with the Gay Liberation Front explains why she later felt it was imperative to work on sexual issues with disabled kids, so her activism is fine, but disclosing her sexuality is probably not until after she dies. While it is public record and not defamatory, their opinion is that it might put her at risk in Jamaica, though it would be worse if she was a male. I've modified the text accordingly. Does it look okay? SusunW (talk) 15:03, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Update[edit]

Just thinking about the phrase, 'according to scholars like John Narayan and W. Chris Johnson' Can we remove the word 'like' as these two ARE the scholars cited? Balance person (talk) 17:21, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free, I can see an argument for either position. I worded it like that (as opposed to the discussion of the Black Unity and Freedom Party above, which I think has not had a lot of research over a long time that many people know about) because Narayan and Johnson are representative of well-known analysis of social biases. Many, many studies have been done regarding the socio-politico-economic position women hold in various societies and black women always come out on bottom of hierarchical society rankings. From woman, they descend further on the scales if they are poor, people of color, not hetero-normative, and/or disabled. SusunW (talk) 19:53, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, absolutely. Intersectional overlap. So I have just switched it to 'such as' which I hope contains these points of view. Thanks. Balance person (talk) 20:49, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Perfect! And yes, one of the aspects of collaboration that improves articles is having those intersectional parts of a subject's identity evaluated by others to make sure we have represented the person/situation in the broadest manner for understanding. SusunW (talk) 14:25, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I have searched newspapers.com, the digital library of the Caribbean, and the britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk but find nada on Bean. SusunW (talk) 21:13, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for all the searching. I guess it is a matter now of just seeing if your email gets a response. The few things I did find a while back just went back to the same sources. I got the idea of trying to make GB visible from scouring the lists for UK Black History month 2021 and 2. So I will go back to those lists to see if there is anybody else I could work on in the meantime. Balance person (talk) 11:35, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I find that it is helpful to walk away for a few days and then come back and look at it with critical eyes. So, waiting to see if either Prof Johnson or Bean reply will give us that time. Also, I think when you're ready, it can now be evaluated from a British perspective to ensure that the language/spelling is "Britishised". SusunW (talk) 14:25, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hello! I have just scanned the text and made it as British as I can! Also many thanks for the red link tip. I will get onto that in a few days. Just have to take care of some real life again. All good wishes and thanks Balance person (talk) 07:53, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I forgot to add that if women are from Romany or Gypsy heritage, or from an indigenous group, they are often more disadvantaged again. Sigh. Balance person (talk) 11:40, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
And don't forget the redlinks in this article too. Gloria Cameron[28],[29],[30],[31] seems notable and also possibly Ama Gueye.[32],[33],[34] Needless to say, so much to do to include all the women history has ignored. I'm going to work on some LGBT women for Women in Red's Pride month, but if you need me, just post on my talk. SusunW (talk) 14:25, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Update from 4meter4[edit]

SusunW, I have added a quote from the Hemmings article which is essentially a transcripted interview with Gail Lewis. Lewis was a member of the Brixton Black Women's Group, and I added a quote where she mentions Bean and their work with the BBWG. There's really not much else there directly mentioning Bean, although one could extrapolate that she was involved in the work discussed in the context of the BBWG. I also added a wiki link to the Lambeth Archives where the Olive Morris Collection is housed. I also added a 2021 article in The New Yorker in which Bean is briefly interviewed and quoted on her participation in the 2020 Oxford International Women's Festival at Oxford University. Finally, I added an article which discusses "Skills For Life" being part of a team of organizations assisting young people living with HIV/AIDS in Jamaica. Undoubtedly, some of my citations will need to be altered to fit with your reference format. Feel free to remove or alter anything I added if you think changes are needed. Best.4meter4 (talk) 19:47, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much 4meter4! I'll convert the refs so that the MOS is consistent. I really appreciate your help in developing the article. SusunW (talk) 19:59, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No problem. I also found an obituary in The Guardian on Clover Graham written by Bean (see [35]). She might make for another good project for WIR.4meter4 (talk)
4meter4 I've converted the refs and really thank you for providing them. On the blockquote from Lewis & Hemmings would you please change the page from the range to the specific pages on which it occurs? I agree Graham is also probably notable. Discovering women's history is truly like pealing an onion — one person's story reveals another, which reveals another, etc. SusunW (talk) 17:16, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
SusunW Unfortunately, I don't have a specific page. The university library only had access to the text of that journal article in an e-page format, which had no page numbers (just one long page of text to scroll through).4meter4 (talk) 22:11, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not to worry, 4meter4. If anyone asks when we nominate it for GA, we have an answer. SusunW (talk) 22:14, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Move to main space?[edit]

This is a well developed article which would benefit from being moved to article space where other editors would be able to collaborate. Maybe it would be good to add one or two images for the move. If there's anything preventing the move, please let me know. I may be able to help.--Ipigott (talk) 19:34, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ipigott Balance person asked to wait to move it until they return at the end of the month. Since it was their suggestion to begin with, I think we should honor the request. I am still hoping that Bean will reply to my queries, I've sent a second request. As for photos, I have no ideas other than to ask her, as when Mujinga and I were previously working on Olive Morris, all of the photos on commons for this period that we wanted to use were deemed unclear copyright. If you have suggestions or edits, please feel free to work your magic. SusunW (talk) 20:03, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes it's a real shame and really shows the balance of power that 1970s (UK) black activists are not really present in the commons archives. I've just read through the article and it's really good, amazing job everyone!! I tried to be a bit more explanatory than usual in my edit summaries so hopefully what i did is clear, obviously feel free to revert. As a comment I think W. Chris Johnson gets too much attention in the legacy section, not sure of a quickfix for that though. While we wait for Balance person, maybe we can discuss DYK possibilities. I don't want to step on anyone's toes but happy to help with that if it seems like a good idea.Mujinga (talk) 21:18, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oh yes another text comment, I think the Gail Lewis quote is quite large. But in any case this article is def ready to be moved next month to mainspace and could easily become a GA, and I think a FA as well which would be awesome Mujinga (talk) 21:20, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Mujinga Thank you so much for looking at her. These are valid points, I'll work on trying to trim those. Please, please, please work on DYK. I am dismal at it. As for FA, we have not one photo so I am not sure that it even meets the "illustrated with appropriate images" for GA. I have no clue what to do about that. But...if you are still planning on going to London, I wonder if any of these places are still there? I have doubts about Afiwe (All for us) School. This says its classes were held in Santley School, but this says Santley closed in 1997. No idea about 3 & 5 Gresham Road, where they ran the West Indian Parents Action Group, possibly it is a rental property? The Abeng center 7 Gresham Road, is now called the Karibu Center. Would that we had photos of the people, but I have no clues on that unless you went to the Black Cultural Archives and talked to Ansel Wong its director who worked with Bean. *sigh* SusunW (talk) 13:32, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah it's superfrustrating on images, I just had another fruitless search. But if there aren't any images of people, that's the way it is I suppose; we should be able to get picture of places at least. My travel plans are in flux, I suppose it might be worth asking for help at WikiProject London although I'm not sure how active it is. I can def email the Black Cultural Archives if/when I'm heading that way. By the way, in looking for an image of 70s Coffee Bar (did I find one? of course not), I came across this link which says "The 70s Coffee Bar on 70 Harrow Road was a popular drop-in centre for youths in Paddington that quickly gained a reputation as a combative centre whose members were not averse to robustly challenge the frequent incursions by officers from the notorious Harrow Road Police Station." so I'm not sure if the caff was on Paddington (High) Street as currently written. Mujinga (talk) 14:53, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Bah i was hoping maybe https://www.geograph.org.uk could offer something, their images are free to upload to commons. But searches for Abeng Centre, 70s Coffee Bar, Afiwe, 7 Canterbury Crescent, 3 & 5 Gresham Road, 61 Golborne Road and 70 Harrow Road all give nothing. Mujinga (talk) 15:10, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I know, it's totally frustrating. I couldn't find anything either. It's really, really frustrating. I kept putting addresses in (rather than just saying in Brixton, in Paddington, etc.) hoping that would help find images, but so far no luck. I cannot access your link above on the 70s cafe, my IP is blocked. (Why does the UK block Mexico from so many sites? It's weird.) I honestly wish it weren't half a world away, I'd go to the Black Cultural Archives myself. I think if someone is standing in front of them they might be more helpful than if they are some anonymous person contacting them by e-mail, but maybe they'll help. It's really frustrating. SusunW (talk) 15:30, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That is funny the UK blocks Mexican web access because it just seems so random! But not for you SusunW :( In this case it doesn't really matter since the quote I gave is literally all the info the page gives, but I thought it's worth flagging up since I can't access the citation on Paddington Street and that might not be correct. 70s cafe being at 70 Harrow Road might make sense. Interestingly, Centro Iberico was at 421 Harrow Road in the 1980s. Re BCA yes I meant I'd email them about meeting up if I pass by London Mujinga (talk) 19:06, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I knew what you said, I just meant that if I were closer, I'd do it. LOL As for the link of the 2010 interview transcript, GRuban has been working on it for me. We've got it now, here and I switched it in the article. She said "set up the 70s Coffee Bar on Paddington High Road" so, I've just changed the text to read "in Paddington" since we aren't sure where the heck it was. SusunW (talk) 19:27, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That's an excellent solution! I'm not even sure Paddington High Road is a real street. Mujinga (talk) 19:35, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Mujinga, I had an idea, do you suppose Edwininlondon really is there? If so, perhaps he or his lovely daughter who encourages him to work on more women can help with our photo woes? SusunW (talk) 13:23, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I am really there, although unfortunately London is so big, it still is an hour to Brixton or Paddington. But when the time is right I could take some pictures yes. Just let me know what you want. Edwininlondon (talk) 20:11, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Edwininlondon Thank you. Sorry it took so long to get back to you. June is always a hectic month for me. On photos, truly anything at all: Abeng Centre (7 Gresham Road, is now called Karibu Center), 70s Coffee Bar (70 Harrow Road), Afiwe School (held in Santley School, which closed in 1997), 7 Canterbury Crescent, 3 & 5 Gresham Road, 61 Golborne Road. The Black Cultural Archives at 1 Windrush Square, Brixton which is directed by Ansel Wong, might have historic photos of Bean, Wong, Reverend Anthony Ottey, Gloria Cameron, Mabel Carter, Lu Garvey, Tony Soares, Olive Morris, Zainab Abbas, Beverley Bryan, Liz Obi, Gail Lewis, or Stella Dadzie. SusunW (talk) 13:57, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Balance person, Mujinga, 4meter4, and Ipigott: I've trimmed the quote a bit and info on Johnson. Still no luck at all on photos, but I'm going to move it. If anyone has any further edits or ideas for photos, that can be done in mainspace and then we'll nominate it. SusunW (talk) 13:27, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

DYK[edit]

Two DYK suggestions, one short and one long. The "hook" must be 200 characters or less. Happy to collaborate on improving these or indeed other hooks. Mujinga (talk) 14:56, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Did you know ... that Gerlin Bean was born in Jamaica, worked as a nurse in the UK, became a feminist and Black nationalist, moved to Zimbabwe and then returned to Jamaica and promoted women's rights there?
  • Did you know ... that Gerlin Bean has promoted women's rights in England, Zimbabwe and Jamaica?
I like the first one, but no one at DYK would, if I proposed it. Perhaps we can shorten it by saying
  • Did you know ... that Jamaican nurse Gerlin Bean became a feminist and Black nationalist in the UK and later moved to promote women's and children's rights in Zimbabwe and Jamaica? SusunW (talk) 15:41, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Did you know ... that Gerlin Bean has promoted women's rights in three different countries? Mujinga (talk) 10:42, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Did you know ... that Jamaican nurse Gerlin Bean became a feminist and Black nationalist in England and later promoted women's and children's rights in both Zimbabwe and Jamaica? Mujinga (talk) 10:42, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I think these are bit too generic to pass a DYK review. When writing a DYK hook, it's best not to summarize broadly (as you have done in these hooks) but to identify a singular specific significant achievement, surprising fact, or quote. I provided one example below, but there are other achievements we could highlight. If you look at the example, the quote establishes importance (i.e. why this person specifically matters, why the reader should be specifically interested in learning more). There are other women who are feminists, activists, black, and have ties to a heritage connected to diasporic movements in the British colonial global system. We need specific details to differentiate Bean from other women with similar backgrounds. Best.4meter4 (talk) 18:29, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah don't hold back, why not suggest more option now we got the ball rolling... Mujinga (talk) 19:06, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
and this is why I don't do DYK often. It is fascinating to me that she was involved in women's politics internationally and very few UK activists would've gone to Zimbabwe, methinks, but I truly don't get hookiness. Thanks for your help 4meter4. It is genuinely much appreciated! (Should it say watershed in UK history?) SusunW (talk) 19:18, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
lol I just checked and you have 261 DYK credits SusunW! That's more than me and 4meter3 put together!! Mujinga (talk) 19:30, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Those exist mainly because other people worked with me on them. Those stats will also show that the longer I've been on the platform, the less likely I am to nominate something for DYK. It got to a point that I did none for a long time. Then one day Yoninah began combing through what I wrote and picking out articles to shepherd through. We had a good partnership and I miss her. SusunW (talk) 13:15, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
SusunW, I absolutely agree with you that it is interesting and likely not a biographical background likely to be replicated by many other women. As you probably have experienced, DYK review has a certain editing culture that has a specific eye and ear for what makes a good hook. It's harder to get broad hooks passed, and it would likely mean getting into a drawn out argument with an uncertain outcome. I've found hooks with specific details tend to not be challenged. As for watershed in UK history versus the "history of Black women's rights activism", I can't change that text because it's direct quote by a historian. (FYI. You'll need to reformat that ref.)4meter4 (talk) 19:34, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@ Mujinga I'm afraid I can't devote any more time to the Gerlin Bean DYK. I am in the middle of other wiki projects at the moment, including this Wikipedia:Peer review/Reynaldo Hahn/archive1 (which I will help shepherd through FA review after peer review), and writing several articles on historic female opera singers (currently Diana Vico; which I just created) and some of the operas in which they created roles in the original productions. My interests are broad on wikipedia, but in general I tend to write mainly on operas, opera singers, composers, and other musicians. Gerlin Bean was a welcome departure from my normal topical area. Best.4meter4 (talk) 19:53, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I truly appreciate your help on Bean 4meter4. You are very right on DYK, too. The article is better because you took "a departure from your normal topical area". Good luck with the FA. SusunW (talk) 13:15, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
User:SusunW talk Hello I am now back and trying to remember how to do this. The page on Gerlin Bean looks amazing and I see the part about her girlfriend has wisely been taken out . Let me know if I can do anything. I will watch with interest and learning to see how things develop from now on. Thanks so much for waiting for me to get back. All the best Balance person (talk) 09:21, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Balance person Now that you are back we need to 1) nominate it for DYK and 2) nominate it for GA. I am happy to shepherd it through GA and it makes no difference if it goes to DYK or GA first, but I am kind of thinking that if we do DYK first that buys us a little more time to find photographs. Do you or Mujinga want to take the lead in sending it to DYK? SusunW (talk) 14:28, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi SusunW I have no idea how to do either but if there is a help page on DYK I will read it and then get back to you to check.Balance person (talk) 14:36, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
OK I have done some reading on DYK. It says we need to nominate within 7 days of when the article is on main space. Is it there already? If so, I guess we need to be quick. Of the hooks people suggested above, I like this one. Did you know ... that in 1978 activist Gerlin Bean co-founded the Organisation of Women of African and Asian Descent, an event described as "a watershed in the history of Black women's rights activism"?
Or this one, Did you know that Gerlin Bean's activism from 1970s on has been celebrated in UK Black History Month festivities, such as the 2014 exhibit "400 Years of African Women Resistance Leaders" and a 2017 sculpture of live cast clenched fists exhibited at the Guildhall Art Gallery in London? Do you have any preferences yourself? Balance person (talk) 15:13, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Balance person I transferred it from draft on 26 June so we have until tomorrow to nominate it. Just go here and follow the template. In the hook, her name should be in brackets and bold, i.e. Gerlin Bean and the creators should be you, 4meter4, Mujinga and me. You can also list both hooks, but, the 2nd one cannot be that long. Hooks are limited to 200 characters and as written it is 284. You could just make it Did you know "...that Gerlin Bean's activism beginning in the 1970s has been celebrated in 21st-century UK Black History Month festivities"? I see that you only have 1 nomination before to DYK, so in the QPQ part of the creation template you can just note that it is only your 2nd nomination. (You get five freebies before a QPQ is required). I learn by doing, so if you want to try to nominate it, go for it. If you run into trouble, just ping me. SusunW (talk) 16:30, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Just doing it now but can't see how to make GB's name BOLD There don't seem to be any word processing/Font/ Bold options on the template?? Balance person (talk) 16:49, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
When you first enter her name, just put it in as Gerlin Bean. Then in the text box, when you are typing the hook type '''[[Gerlin Bean]]''' SusunW (talk) 17:00, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry forgot to ping Balance person SusunW (talk) 17:33, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Great! Thanks. I have done it and got a 'completed' message so I hope I have done it right! Balance person (talk) 18:54, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Woo hoo! Congrats on figuring it out Balance person. Make sure you watch the page of the nomination so that when someone reviews it you can comment if needed. I've watched it as well. SusunW (talk) 19:03, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for all your patience and advice! Lots to learn! Balance person (talk) 21:33, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Balance person Learning the ropes on here is hard. There is always more to learn, regardless or if you are new or have been here a while. Having a network of people you can go to for help is crucial. I am happy to try to help anytime. That may mean I have an answer, but it also may mean that I have a friend who may know an answer. Ask anytime. SusunW (talk) 12:21, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! Balance person (talk) 15:27, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's nice to see this all coming along collaboratively! Mujinga (talk) 10:14, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Susun! Just want to make sure that I am looking in the right place for news of Gerlin Bean and the DYK nomination. I can see it when I type in Category:Pending DYK nominations but I cannot see it any longer under Template talk: Did you know # instructions for nominators. Where do you look when you search to find the progress, if any? Thanks! Balance person (talk) 21:05, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Susun. I see that the DYK nomination for Gerlin Bean has progressed and that the nominator (me) can now choose the hook. It is good news that apparently it has passed review. Sorry to bother you but can you tell me how I do the next step? Thanks! Balance person (talk) 21:00, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Balance person, in wikispeak, you are the nominator. The promoter is the person who builds the queue of articles to run on the front page. So, there is nothing to do until it is selected and runs. The article will probably get some edits during that time and we'll need to decide if they are improvements or not before we nominate it for GA. (By the way, Miljo was approved as a GA today. I appreciate your help and gave you credit for assisting with it in the nomination.) SusunW (talk) 04:49, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ah! That's very clear thanks. So I will wait until something more happens. And well done for the Miljo article! Great! Balance person (talk) 07:58, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Balance person you should be able to see changes on your watchlist if you bookmarked it, or you can go to DYK Awaiting Approvals and look for it. I haven't seen a review start. SusunW (talk) 21:21, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

SusunW Thanks Susun! Balance person (talk) 08:04, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
SusunW Looks like Gerlin Bean has made it to DYK! Yay!Balance person (talk) 12:13, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Well done! Now Balance person, we watch it and make sure no weird changes are inserted. Then do a final clean up and nominate it for GA. SusunW (talk) 13:23, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ah Okay! I didn't know people did that. And I will check out what makes a GA tomorrow! Balance person (talk) 14:53, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nice this was on the frontpage :) Mujinga (talk) 12:59, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've compared the history and don't see that any significant changes or additions were made. I think we're ready to nominate for GA unless anyone thinks more can be done. SusunW (talk) 13:49, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Agree it's ready for GAR! Mujinga (talk) 14:47, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, done. Balance person now we just wait until someone picks it up. Once they start making comments, feel free to jump in and answer/deal with anything requested to improve the article. SusunW (talk) 15:03, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 11:32, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(
)

Created by Balance person (talk), SusunW (talk), Mujinga (talk), and 4meter4 (talk). Nominated by Balance person (talk) at 18:51, 1 July 2022 (UTC).[reply]

Policy compliance:

Hook eligibility:

  • Cited: Yes
  • Interesting: Yes
  • Other problems: Yes
QPQ: Done.
Overall: This is ready. The promoter can choose the hook. SL93 (talk) 19:53, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

Passed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:20, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Gerlin Bean/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: BennyOnTheLoose (talk · contribs) 16:13, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

GA review
(see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose, spelling, and grammar):
    b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references):
    b (citations to reliable sources):
    c (OR):
    d (copyvio and plagiarism):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects):
    b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):
    b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

Overall:
Pass/Fail:

· · ·

Happy to discuss, or be challenged on, any of my review comments. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:13, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for picking this up BennyOnTheLoose. Looking forward to collaborating with you. Pinging Balance person so that they can bookmark this page, learn about the GA process, and respond if they wish (since the entire idea of the article came from their inspiration.) SusunW (talk) 16:25, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Images: My search suggested that there are currently no suitable images of Bean that can be used.
Don't get me started. We tried so hard to find even one image of any person, any organization, any building. :'( So very, very frustrating that there are so few photographs available to use in this significant historical period concerning Black Britons. SusunW (talk) 13:05, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Copyvio check - I reviewed all Earwig's Copyvio Detector matches over 10%. No concerns. (A couple of common phrases a few words long appear in the article and in sources)
  • Sources appear suitable and reliable. (I'm OK with the issue of Shrew being provided via the Mayday Rooms Twitter account)
  • Spot checks on sources OK; any queries are noted below.
  • There are a couple of duplicate links which should be removed per WP:DUPLINKS (London School of Economics, Gail Lewis) in my opinion. As per the note at WP:DUPLINKS, "Duplicate links in an article can be found using the duplinks-alt sidebar tool."
Whatever that tool is supposed to do, it doesn't seem to do (or I installed it wrong because I have zero understanding of Wikipedia technology). I removed Gail Lewis and LSE if that works, then  Done SusunW (talk) 13:05, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Early life and education

  • "She earned a bachelor's degree..." Given that the previous sentence was about Jennifer, and that the masters award was in 1995, I suggest "Bean earned a bachelor's degree..."
  • "She remained in Paddington until the Gresham Youth Project was founded and then went to work in Brixton." - source has "When she left Paddington, Gerlin set up the Gresham Project in Brixton" which I read as a slightly different chronology (Paddington/Brixton/Gresham founded in source v Paddington/Gresham founded/Brixton in the article)
  • "The facility worked in conjunction..." - maybe "The staff of the facility worked in conjunction..."?
  • "an abandoned terrace house" - "an abandoned terraced house" seems the right phrase to me
  • BE vs. AE methinks. I've changed it and linked it.  Done SusunW (talk) 13:22, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Career and activism

  • "Although Bean published a pamphlet Black Women Speak Out in 1970–71, ... "feel very constricted"" - sentence doesn't seem to flow well to me. Done Balance person (talk) 14:41, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Makes perfect sense to me, so I am not sure how to change it. It's basically the whole reason the women's movement became global. Women at the time could only express themselves in ways that were acceptable to men and were unable to have their issues and views taken seriously. Balance person want to give this a go? SusunW (talk) 13:27, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
SusunW (talk) Beginner question....How do you get the green check/tick mark to show and do you make the changes on the page as it is in the encyclopedia as normal? Balance person (talk) 13:50, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Balance person The tick is done by inserting {{done}} here after the comment. As for editing the article, I open a separate tab on the article page and edit it as a normal edit and then come over to this page and make my comment. SusunW (talk) 14:02, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Legacy

  • "Bean has been the subject of two papers presented by W. Chris Johnson of the University of Toronto" - maybe add a little about what these covered in the papers, e.g were they purely biographical?
  • The text used to read "Bean has been the subject of two papers presented by W. Chris Johnson of the University of Toronto. In 2018, Johnson presented "The Courage to Continue: The Revolutionary Itineraries of Caribbean Feminist Gerlin Bean" at the Black and Caribbean Diasporic Feminisms Research Workshop held in April in Toronto and "Everything is Interlinked, and Interrelated, Not Static: The Radical Praxis of Caribbean Revolutionary Gerlin Bean in 1970s Britain" at the North American Conference on British Studies held in October in Providence, Rhode Island." But comments in the preliminary review were that since Johnson wouldn't share his work, it was too much focus on him. I have added "about her involvement in radical feminism" because other than what I can see in the titles, that's all I am comfortable saying. If that works, then  Done SusunW (talk) 13:41, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Optionally, add the title of the De Jonge sculpture (A Fighters' Archive) and/or something to the effect that the fists were in "the form of a boxing archive". (Too bad there seems to be no info about what happened to the casts after the exhibition).

Selected works

  • I wasn't sure about the external link's inclusion at first, but after looking at WP:MOS-BIBLIO, it seems fine.
  • It was the only way we could figure out how to make an image available. SusunW (talk) 13:46, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Notes

  • "Several sources indicate the presence of only two Black women, like A.S. Francis and Bean in an interview, who said only herself and Pat Smith of Essex University attended" - could be reworded. Maybe something like "Several sources indicate the presence of only two Black women. These sources include A.S. Francis, and Bean, who said in an interview that only herself and Pat Smith of Essex University attended"? (If I haven't twisted the meaning.)

Lead

  • I think the lead is fine, but you could, optionally, add in something about Bean's principles/beliefs (which might mean adding something to the article body too).
  • added "Bean's work and activism focused on eliminating discriminatory policies for people of color, women, and people with disabilities. She fought for equal educational opportunity, fair wages, adequate housing, and programs that supported families, such as counseling services, child care, and health care" to the lede.  Done SusunW (talk) 14:14, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for your work on the article, Balance person and SusunW. From what I've seen in sources, the article seems to be balanced and comply with WP:NPOV. I can't see any major issues with the article; I've put a few suggestions above but some of them I've marked optional, and I'm open to debating any of the others too. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:53, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

BennyOnTheLoose (talk) Thank you both for letting me know how the Gerlin Bean page is getting along in the GA process. I am happy to learn about the criteria and procedures for GAs. SusunW (talk) If you are busy SusunW, I can try to follow the uncomplicated text revisions in the article as per the suggestions? Some other amendments are a bit over technical for me as yet! Let me know? Thanks.Balance person (talk) 10:00, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Balance person as you like. If you do one of the points, just make sure it is marked done. SusunW (talk)
SusunW (talk) I have had a go at the 'constricted' section. Thanks for your green tick help!Balance person (talk) 14:45, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Cool! Thanks Balance person. BennyOnTheLoose I think we have answered your queries, but if not, please ping me and we'll try again. I truly appreciate your review and help in improving the article. SusunW (talk) 14:59, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks again for your work here, Balance person and SusunW. I'm satisfied that the article meets the GA criteria, and so am passing it. Well done! Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:17, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Pix[edit]

@SusunW: I haven't forgotten about pix, although it is going rather slowly! I was in Brixton recently, unfortunately the Black Cultural Archives was closed. I did managed to get some snaps of 3 & 5 (a joined house, strangely it's derelict now) and 7 Gresham Road. They're here]. As I uploaded them I found this (better) photo] (grr!) so I've added that to the article. Feel free to change/adapt of course. On the other locations, 7 Canterbury Crescent, just round the corner from Gresham Road, is demolished and rebuilt, and 70 Harrow Road and 61 Golborne Road are in a different bit of London. Cheers, Mujinga (talk) 12:39, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cool Mujinga. Sorry that the archive was closed, but maybe someday they'll just decide to share a bunch of photos with us. Happy to have any photos, as her era in Britain seems particularly difficult. SusunW (talk) 14:11, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed! Mujinga (talk) 18:42, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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