Talk:Gian Carlo Menotti

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Archives

/Archive 1- 2006-2020 discussions

POV[edit]

Re: "With Goya Menotti reverted to a traditional Giovane Scuola Italian style - perhaps written 80 years too late, it might well have established itself (for a while at least) in the repertoire in an earlier period. But in a modernist world Menotti's work was rejected.":

This strikes me as a subjective assessment. If someone famous is responsible for it, the article should attribute it to that person (directly, not in a footnote). If not, I think it should be deleted. TheScotch (talk) 12:00, 19 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well frankly Goya was only one of many works leveled with that criticism. Pretty much all of his works from the late 1950s on were rejected by critics for bring too romantic, trite, sachrine, etc. He never embraced the avante garde and paid for it.4meter4 (talk) 17:45, 19 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah? Well, I happen to have seen the PBS version of the opera back in 1985 (approximately), and I thought it was awful. My opinion has nothing whatsoever to do with a particular interest in "the avant garde", nor do I dislike most of Menotti's more famous works. My opinion doesn't belong on the Wikipedia article page, of course, but neither does anyone else's opinion, or anyone's rationalized apologia, unless it can be (and is) attributed--directly--to someone notable. I'm removing the passage. You can restore it if you like with the attribution. TheScotch (talk) 07:08, 20 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe this crushing review from the NY Times can be considered a notable opinion.--Francesco Malipiero (talk) 17:51, 20 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. TheScotch (talk) 22:01, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What does "a traditional Giovane Scuola Italian style" mean? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 03:43, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

See the article: Giovane scuola.4meter4 (talk) 03:49, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Old Maid and the Thief[edit]

The article describes Old Maid as being one of the earliest 'radio operas.' Reference to the article on 'radio opera' would seem to indicate that this is not a true statement. Indeed Old Maid may possibly be seen as actually late in the 'heyday' of the form. FrankMJohnson (talk) 06:55, 3 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

American composer[edit]

There is currently a dispute whether Menotti should be categorized as an American composer. Given his biography and work, especially his operas, I suggest he should, as does the Italian Wikipedia article. User:Nirva20 maintains that because Menotti didn't acquire US citizenship, he shouldn't. I have restored the article to its long stable version and await a wider discussion here. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:54, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Of course he was an American composer. As far as I can tell, all but one of his works were in English. He left Italy at the age of 17 and moved to America, and lived to the age of 95. Passport status is irrelevant. Cf. [1], [2], [3].Softlavender (talk) 04:14, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Softlavender -- if passport status is irrelevant then why did Menotti intentionally refuse to become a US citizen? He was not legally a US citizen by his own choice. Choices have consequences and should be reflected in the article and categories.

Bizarrely, look at the effort somebody went to on the Mary Pickford page to falsely claim "America's Sweetheart" was never a US citizen, which she was which is why she had to petition the Canadian government to restore her Canadian citizenship before her death. Nirva20 (talk) 18:14, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a source available for "intentionally refuse"? Further to the 3 links given above, Daron Hagen not only calls him 'American' but asserts that GCM "proudly referred to himself as an American composer". -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:39, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I guess you could use the verb decline instead of refuse, if you want. Nirva20 (talk) 03:12, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Any rationale for his retaining Italian citizenship would be speculation unless a reliable citation is found on the subject. Wikipedia does not engage in speculation. My intuition is that it was extremely easy for him to live in the U.S. without an American passport since he was famously well-established there by the time he was 30. An Italian passport, on the other hand, was a convenient thing to have, and Italy did not allow dual citizenship with the USA until 1992, at which point Menotti was 81 years old. Softlavender (talk) 00:45, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine. I don't remotely care that he didn't become a U.S. citizen nor do I care why. But the fact is that he didn't! Nirva20 (talk) 01:54, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You asked why here and received replies. If you don't care about the why of something, then in the future please avoid wasting volunteer editors' time with questions. Softlavender (talk) 02:21, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It was not a genuine question. Nobody here knows the answer. It was a rhetorical point. Nirva20 (talk) 06:17, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:NOTAFORUM: Wikipedia articletalk pages are not forums for making "rhetorical points" or for asking questions that you retroactively claim you do not actually want the answer(s) to, even though you suggested an alternative wording when you were replied to [4], suggesting thereby that you did indeed want the question answered. Please stop while you are ahead because you are still wasting editors' time. Softlavender (talk) 08:57, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nonetheless, I know myself better than you know me and it was indeed rhetorical. I did not expect anyone to answer on Menotti's behalf nor would I have necessarily believed any proferred explanation because only Menotti knew his own reasoning unless he was explicitly quoted on the subject which I do not believe was the case. If we have to rely on the canons of Wikipedia to justify everything, however, then WP:COMMONSENSE might come into play. Nirva20 (talk) 03:13, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]