Talk:Gilbert du Motier, Marquis de Lafayette/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Bgmaple, Tiramisu7.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 21:48, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 May 2018

In at least two instances, this article does not maintain a neutral point of view. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view

Instance 1):

"Decline: Flight to Varennes and Champs de Mars massacre

On 20 June 1791, a plot, dubbed the Flight to Varennes, almost allowed the king to escape from France. As leader of the National Guard, Lafayette had been responsible for the royal family's custody. He was thus blamed by extremists like Danton for the near-escape and called a traitor to the people by Robespierre."

Please change "extremists" to "popular leaders."

"Extremists" is a subjective word. Extreme compared to what or to whom? A person who advocated for the abolition of slavery 200 years ago would have been called an "extremist." Suggest: "leaders," "other leaders," or "radical leaders." Danton was radical in comparison to the milieu at the time, but would have been considered a "moderate" during the period of the Committee of Public Safety under Robespierre (which had Danton and Desmoulins executed).

Instance 2) In the same section:

"Martial law was declared, and the leaders of the mob, such as Danton and Marat, fled or went into hiding . . . "

Please change "the leaders of the mob" to "popular leaders."

"of the mob" is again a subjective appellation. Suggest "popular leaders." Note: Danton at the time did not hold official office, but was a popular leader and in the Cordelier's club, one of many such political clubs formed in the immediate aftermath of 1789. Marat was a publisher, and a noted scientific writer prior to the Revolution.

With respect to the use of the term "mob." A mob is a negative and subjective appellation. There is no wikipedia entry for Paris Mob or the Revolutionary Mob. The article indicates Danton and Marat were leaders of something that cannot be defined precisely and has no wikipedia definition. There is a wikipedia entry for "Sans-Cullotes" of which it can be fairly said that Marat was a (not the) leader of the Parisan Sans-Cullottes (among other groups such as readers of his journal). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sans-culottes Tdbrady22 (talk) 13:02, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: The NPOV policy does not mean that all descriptions must be unquestionable. From the same policy you reference: Neutrality requires that each article or other page in the mainspace fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in the published, reliable sources.. Both challenged sentences are cited to well-established, reliable sources. That Danton or Marat are not generally considered extremists in the French Revolution is not a significant view point, not that the mobs of Paris were not mobs. These are well-established views of serious historians of the period and to remove these would break, rather than comply with, the NPOV policy. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 16:34, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 September 2018

Change this sentence: While Lafayette was returning to France, Louis XVIII died, and Charles X took the throne

to this sentence: When Lafayette arrived in France, Louis XVIII had been dead about a year and Charles X was on the throne.

to reflect the fact that Louis XVIII had been dead a year when Lafayette arrived back in France.  Louis died 16 September 1824 about a month after Lafayette arrived in New York on 15 August 1824.  Layfayette arrived BACK in France after the grand tour probably in October 1825 since he set sail on 7 September 1825. Rodsmothers (talk) 17:57, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

 Done L293D (☎ • ✎) 01:46, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 March 2020

In Lafayette's full name it says La Fayette. Is this correct? 1Lafayette1 (talk) 17:15, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

@1Lafayette1: It's the correct (French) family name. As it says in the lead: "known in the United States simply as Lafayette". Favonian (talk) 17:35, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

LaFayette’s Children

I would like to add the names of his three daughters to the page. They are currently listed on the page for his wife, Adrienne. Tumbleweed42AC (talk) 03:00, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

We generally don't list children, unless they have their own articles. This is a FA and may follow higher standards than the wife's article.--Wehwalt (talk) 09:05, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 January 2021

Provide a description and pictoral representation the Lafayette dollar, a silver coin issued as part of the United States' participation in the Paris World's Fair of 1900. Depicting Gilbert du Motier, Marquis de Lafayette with George Washington, and designed by Chief Engraver Charles E. Barber, it was the only U.S. silver dollar commemorative prior to 1983, and the first U.S. coin to depict American citizens. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lafayette_dollar as reference. Loompus (talk) 18:09, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Goldsztajn (talk) 05:07, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Seems a good (and well written) suggestion, and the image should probably be on the page Honors and memorials to the Marquis de Lafayette as well. Randy Kryn (talk) 05:22, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Added to the 'honors and memorials' page. Including it here also seems reasonable, maybe in the small gallery which now includes three postage stamps (as first entry per chronological order and the way the images on the coin are facing). Randy Kryn (talk) 12:09, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Loompus, Goldsztajn, since this discussion has gone silent for a few days, have added the silver dollar image to the gallery in the Assessment section which contains the images of three stamps. Added chronologically, it seems to fit well and the images seem to be facing the stamps, which works aesthetically. Seem okay? Randy Kryn (talk) 11:46, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Seems fine to me. Courtesy ping to Wehwalt, original successful nominator of this article to FA. Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 12:27, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

No objection.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:58, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 18 February 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 03:34, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

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Gilbert du Motier, Marquis de Lafayette → Marquis de Lafayette – Per WP:CONCISE and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, Marquis de Lafayette is already concise enough that the name I proposing already redirects here and is considered as such as the primary topic, and since this is a feature article it very much needs a short but precise article title. Even the note on the lede paragraph says that Marquis de Lafayette is the most commonly used instead of his name. A hatnote here to House of La Fayette will be a great way to distinguish it from other marquesses of his House. PyroFloe (talk) 01:27, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

For that matter, why not move it to Lafayette? It currently is a disambiguation page which could be moved to Lafayette (disambiguation)--Wehwalt (talk) 16:06, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose for exactly the same reason that we call the even more well-known general Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington and not Duke of Wellington, despite he too being invariably known only by his title (along with most other British peers), clearly being the primary topic and having a primary redirect. This is a long-established convention and there is no reason why French nobility should be any different. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:44, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose per Necrothesp. Randy Kryn (talk) 03:47, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
• Support because there are other examples like Lord Byron. Miguel Andrade (talk) 18:03, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
  • Byron is an exception. This is not the standard. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:31, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose per Necrothesp. Dimadick (talk) 20:20, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
• Comment what would do if the WP:SNOW occur? --49.150.104.5 (talk) 00:32, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.