Talk:Gohan/Archive 2

"Gold" or "Golden" Fighter?

Both terms are present in the article. Which is correct? Paul Haymon 06:18, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I specifically remember "Gold Fighter", not "Golden Fighter". --Majinvegeta 23:40, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Aye. I believe it was "Gold Fighter" as well.--$UIT 00:58, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

In that case I will change all instances of "Golden" to "Gold". Thanks. Paul Haymon 01:14, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

It is Gold Fighter,it said in the Great Saiyaman Saga. Panicpack121 8:45, February 25,2008 (UTC)

Gohan age edit war.

Ok this little edit war situation about Gohan’s age during the Cell saga is really nerveraking. First off via the manga old and newly revised, and the Daizenshuu, (no Funimation versions are used to edit Dragon Ball articles) Gohan is 4 at the beginning of DBZ, between the beginning of DBZ and the beginning of the Android saga is roughly 2 years which makes him 6 to 6 1/2 years old at the beginning of that saga. Now from three years later he is 9 repeat 9 years old. Now because of the Room of Spirit and Time there is a big debate on if he considered a year old. Figuratively speaking yes but since only one day actually past Gohan in the manga considered 9 but since the anime which has been given actual dated timeline via Daizenshuu gave Gohan a birthday during the 10 day wait before the Cell Games. Gohan via the anime is 10 when he defeats Cell. With that now it is time to let you see how wrong some of you are in your conquest to change Gohan from 9 (10) to 10 (11), do the math. Manga and Japanese original dialoged anime Gohan at the beginning of the Buu saga is 16 years old. Repeat 16 years old. Now as the manga goes 9 years + 7 years = 16 years old. So as the manga goes it does not even consider Gohan's time in the RoSat part of his age. Japanese original dialog anime which was given dates via Daizenshuu which I will reshow you will show Gohan was not 11 years when he fought and defeated Cell.

• 757 A.D. May, Son Gohan was born (actual date is never show but is between the 16th and the 26th of May. (The 10 days before the Cell games and Toei studios gave Gohan his birthday sometime between these days)
• 767 A.D. May 26th, the Cell games begins and Cell’s defeat (in the original DB manga it was the 17th of May) roughly 10 years later.
• 774 A.D. April 7th, the beginning of the Buu saga (Gohan's first day of high school) Look at the date. Not even a full 7 years yet so the still makes Gohan 16 years old.
• 774 A.D. May 8th, the defeat of Majin Buu. Since the date Buu was defeated still is not a complete 7 year from Gohan birthday as well as the defeat of Cell Gohan is still 16 years old.

Funimation messed up because even in the Great Saiyaman saga and the Budokai Tenkaichi games (A Funimation project game) they even state Gohan was 16 years old so how can a 10 year old or a 11 year old Gohan be 16 years old 7 years later? He can't, he would be 17 or 18 years old which he clearly is not by not just the manga and japanese original anime but even Funimation. So stop editing the mistakes Funimation made. Sorry for the long statement but it is getting really painstaking editing when someone always editing Gohan’s age. Heat P 02:18, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you, Gohan is 9 (10 if you include the year in RoSaT). I have noticed this edit war, I just stupidly ignored it. --Majinvegeta 02:23, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Good to see this here. Now if people would pay attention to it … The Magistratus (talk) 01:13, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Gohan is NOT 16 years-old!!! Yes, he was in the japanese version, but they made him older in the english version. I can prove this! In the episode 'Android Explosion' while Cell is squeezing Gohan, Piccolo says to Goku (in these exact words) "And so your son maybe the most powerful person in the world, but he's also a scared ELEVEN-year-old boy!" Watch that episode if you don't believe me. Now, in the Great Saiyaman Saga it is stated that seven years have passed. That makes him eighteen years old. Watch the damn episode if you don't believe me. WhySoSerious22 (talk) 10:51, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia guidelines say use the original source material, plus the English VIZ manga says 16. So no, we use 16. The Magistratus (talk) 22:26, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Well then, why not post a sub-topic on the page stating the age differences as to avoid confusion with our readers? Most people visiting these pages follow the series, not the manga. To ignore this is lazy and unfair. Every contribution, not matter what it is, that is made to wikipedia is erased. What's the point on the moderaters allowing edits if they never accept them? Not adding it because it stated in the Manga that he is 16 is petty. Gohan's page needs to state the age differences in the Japanese cartoon, the manga, and the english cartoon. WhySoSerious22 (talk) 00:36, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

The only reverts made have been when the actual age was replaced entirely. The Magistratus (talk) 04:37, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I guess this proves that Wikipedian moderaters bend the rules to suite them. Please don't avoid what I'm saying. I think it should state on Gohan's page that in the original manga he was 16 but in the TV series he is 18. This clears up confusion and makes his page more informative. WhySoSerious22 (talk) 06:47, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Again, state in the article he was erroneously called eleven in the dub (as, in the redub, he's stated to be 4-and-a-half at the beginning of Dragon Ball Z -- apparently, he could be ANY age by the time the Buu arc rolls around, seeing as how time seems to flow differently in FUNimation land). And again, the only edits made were ones where the actual age were deleted entirely in favor of FUNimation's, no edits of the kind I'm suggesting have been deleted. The Magistratus (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 19:44, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Hmm...I see the problem. It is whether we count the RoSaT year or not. What do we go by, the manga or the anime? My vote is the manga, and before Gohan went into the Room of Spirit and Time he was 9 years old -- actually, 9 and a half years old if you count Chi-Chi screaming at Goku that he'd been away after Freeza for a year and a half. But let's forget that. At the beginning, Gohan is 4, trains with Piccolo for a year after Raditz's death, he'd be 5. After Freeza gets defeated by Goku, it's a year before Goku returns to Earth. Gohan is 6. Three years later, when everyone train for the Androids, Gohan is 9. Then he goes into the Room Of Spirit and Time. If you count that year, he'd be 10. But if you don't count it, he'd be 9, seven years after Cell is destroyed, he'd be 16, going by the manga. If you count his RoSaT year, 10 + 7 is 17. No way would he be as old as 18, impossible. FUNimation f***ed with that completely, because they made Gohan like, one or two years older than he was in the manga. But this is just pathetic -- it's 16, deal with it. Son Gohan (talk) 15:31, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Here is an answer to WhySoSerious22 on why people think Gohan might be 17 or 18 during Buu. This is due to FUNimation dub of the series, at the very beginning of the series Gohan is stated to be 5 years old, however he is holding up 4 fingers. Since the director at the time was not a fan of child violence (and Gohan was about to get hit REAL soon) he thought aging Gohan would help lighten the problem, however, this ended up messing us all up and creating this problem, eventually they messed it up even more by stating that Gohan aged a year in the HTC/RoSaT, the Narrator said in the epilouge of episode 170 "Cell is now about to face a warrior 11 years in the making" or something like that. This causes massive problems, if people think Gohan didn't age in the chamber, he turns out to be 17 in Buu Saga, if they say he does, he ends up being 18, or in some cases I've even heard that hes 19. Gen Fukunaga corrected this mistake in the Remastered Uncut DVDs, Gohan is redubbed to say he is 4 years old instead of 5, and the Narrator and Piccolo may change their lines, I do not know, as I haven't seen that yet, however, the mistake for the most part, is corrected. Gohan is 4 in the begining, he ages to 5 in the Nappa/Vegeta Arc, ages to 6 when Trunks arrives, is 9 at the time when he is finished training, and does not age a year in the HTC/RoSoT. He is 9 when he defeats Cell, and ages to 16 in the Buu Saga, he is 21 at the end of DBZ, and is 26-27 in GT. Hope this helps clear this up. -Digman14 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Mystic Gohan vs Super Saiyan

I would like to discuss the Mystic Gohan form with my two issues: 1)The rumour that if Gohan turns Super Saiyan at his Mystic form, the Earth will explode. First of all, I don't know which idiot put that on the article as it is found nowhere in the Anime or Manga, or even stated by Toriyama. Second of all, that statement alone iss a stupid rumor invented by dorks such as yourself (whoever you are) as far as 1998, as a means to explain why Gohan looked normal, instead of use Super Saiyan, while others were(and its variations). Please don't put this as fact. People are trying to read.

2)"When Gohan is told to go Super Saiyan, he releases so much power it even amazes Elder Kai" Blah, blah, blah. May I also add that since Gohan was 10 (11 in the anime), he was able to transform into a Super Saiyan instanteously, meaning what you wrote was garbage. So I have done the favour of editing it (including that Super Saiyan blow up the Earth dribble). Also, if Gohan was the strongest unfused warrior in the manga, 1) Why didn't Toriyama himself say so, instead of get your sources from the Daizenshuu? 2) Why didn't he instead fight Kid Buu instead of Goku? (Not necessairly saying Kid Buu is Buu's mightiest form but you get my point), and 3) How can he be the strongest if he's stopped fighting for 10 years, while Goku was training continuously? By then coomon sense must prevail that even if he was the strongest unfused character by the time Kid Buu was defeated, he would be weaker as he stopped training, while Goku kept improving, and even then Uub was still able to rival him. Therefore I keep editing "Gohan is the strongest unfused character in the series". Also count DBGT (lLord's know why they even made that series). He can't possibly be the strongest character in the series, since he gets his butt kicked half the time! That title goes to Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta (which is basically a serious movie fusion of Goku and Vegeta adapted to be an unorginal version of Vegetto, with the "popular" Super Saiyan 4 form. Don't my word for it. go to this[1] for more information on Mystic Gohan/Super Saiyan controversy. However don't expect it to explain why Gohan didn't use the Mystic form rather his Super Saiyan form. My guess is the the staff who created DBGT (which doesn't include Toriyama) were being ignorant and negelectful and foolish, and left many subjects out and made up its own stories based on the anime and manga without even referring to it, thus its many inconsistencies. Uglyguy2006

If it doesn't state it at/in an official source, then it can't be added. Wikipedia is not a fan site, it is intended to exclusively state official information, not "rumors" and speculation. And the "rumor" of the earth Blowing up if he turned Super Saiyan is just that, a rumor, which in the mighty-ness of Wikipedia rules, that equates as speculation, therefor is not allowed in the article. And Kid Buu is not the strongest form of Buu, Buu with Gohan absorbed is. And there is nothing that states if Gohan stopped training in the years after Kid Buu's appearance; but I agree, there is nothing to say that he did train. I agree with UglyGuy about the GT staff being neglectful. There are several (actually more then several) other flaws in GT that I can easily point out, however, this is not the place or the time. --MajinVegeta 22:06, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

...And another thing I must point out, Gohan IS the strongest "single" Character at the end of the Buu Saga, as stated by the Daizenshuus. I've had to change that for the billionth time, he is not "one of the strongest", he IS the strongest. Both Toriyama and the Daizenshuus stated it, and Toei messed it up in the Anime by implying that Goku was. --MajinVegeta 22:19, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Let me answer these questions or responed to some of the comments by Ugly2006. For the first parts of you statement I agree with. putting all that rumors and speculation in the article is wrong and violates Wiki-policy. However it is time to hit the comments and questions you asked. First off I will start with Gohan's age---read the above section again. It is 9(manga) 10(anime) please don't try to bring that up again like that to show you want to use Funimation editing. If you feel he was 10(11) bring it up in the above section, not to sneak it in in anonther discussion. Next the statement about Gohan the strongest unfused character. Well unfused can actually mean two things. The first is what most people see it as. Gohan as a single character is on par with fused character. For instants he surpassed SSJ3 Gotenks who was basically even with Buu and Gohan excuse my language, Tore off in Buu's ass until Buu absorbed Gotenks and Buu was off in Gohan's ass. Now it can also mean that Gohan is the only mega-strong character to never fuse which is the way you are going. So with that it is possible for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Gohan later as they have and have fused before still leaving Gohan with the title the strongest unfused character. Kind of far fech but it's a possiblity. Hope you and others are getting what I am saying. Why Toriyama did not say that himself? You got to do some reseach. Akira Toriyama did in fact say that himself in his own words. It was in a interview with Shonen Jump(Japan version) and it was stated by him. Also Daizenshuu books are mainly done by his staff but has his final approval before they got published as it has is name on every last book. Plus he does do some work in the Daizenshuus. So it turn it is another way to say he did say that as he was the final approval for the book publishing. Why Gohan did not fight Buu. Really simple. The Japanese public had in Goku as the main fighteing character for DB period but many times Toriyama wanted Gohan to take the spotlight but with Goku popularity so high he continued with him. After Cells defeat A.T. tried to put Gohan as the main fighter and created Goten as a new start for Goku's look but Goten's likeness to his dad did not help and the public wanted Goku back so he got brought back. As the Buu saga neared its end A.T. was going to use Gohan to defeat Buu but again popularity set in and Shonen Jump sales during that time was going down so Gohan was killed, and Goku defeated Buu. That is the main reason why Goku beat Buu, also that is not specualtion, that is fact. Look it up. And one other thing this saying about Akira Toriyama did not work on GT is WRONG A.T. decided to end DB but since its popularity was so high Toei ask him to do another which he say no more mangas but gave rights to do another anime series to Toei. Then he was asked he can come up with so idea for the show with he agreed to do and as most people may not know it was Akira Toriyama that gave DB GT its name. Yes Akira Toriyama gave Dragon Ball Grand Tour its name. As well as character designs for new characters like Gill, Gave most of the main and big supporting DB cast their clothing designs. Also yes at the beginning of GT they had some nice size plotholes like Pilaf, Gohan, and many other but there are just as many in DBZ from the original DB but since most Americans had came up with DBZ first you feel it is the complete truth when its not but thats for another time. Now Gohan again. Yes GT throws out Gohan's mystic ability for the popular SSJ forms. Why? As we said before we don't know and may never know. But it was last said by Rou Dai Kaioshin that Gohan had to power up like a Super Saiyan, not to transform into one. It never said that Gohan lost his SSJ power or that it was power different from the SSJ forms. Meaning Gohan has two different powers and can chose to use either one unlike SSJ forms that are different stages of the same form which is the same power multiplied. Remember U.Gohan's powers are his normal powers maxed out do to his hidden potential that grew with him in power and unleashed. So if you think about it (this is opinion now) if you had the ability to transform in to a powerful being but found out later that you normal power now suppass your tranformed powers by 10 folds would you use the transformed state or you normal powers? That can be taking into account about Gohan as AT may have wanted it. That all.Heat P 09:31, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

You have REALLY done all your reaseach Heat! All of that you just posted was what I read too about Toriyama. He persistently wanted Gohan (his fav character) as the main character, but everybody wanted Goku to stay the main character, so he created Goten, but everybody still wanted Goku. But since Gohan was his fav character, he made him the strongest single character. And I had a shonen Jump Interview with Toriyama that stated some of those things. Can't remember where it went though. --MajinVegeta 15:04, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to thank you for clearing that up with me. heat and Majin Vegeta. I'd also like to add I didn't say that Toriyama had no involvement in GT and i'm aware that he in fact contributed to many of the designs. I thank you two for answering my dilemma. It inspires me to research further on the works of Akira Toriyama. P.S. Do note my often impolite tone is due to the frustration of people editing articles which are highly dubious. Of course some of you are guilty of that yourselves. Once again I must add I didn't say Kid Buu is the strongest form but in this article it doesn't matter. I'm really glad you cleared that up. I also goofed on Gohan's age in the manga and remembered the animes instead and I would also like to find out when Toriyama made this interview. If I wrote that Toriyama didn't take part in GT, it was by accident. And my name is UGLYGUY2006! Uglguy2006

Furthermore, I'd like to point out that I happen to rely on the manga as well thank you very much, not the anime contrary to belief. My argumeant wasn't based on the anime at all, rather the manga which is why I started this conversation. My primary point was that someone typed that if Gohan turned Super Saiyan while using his Mystic power-up the Earth will explode. My answer was that this is pure rumor and even after I started this discussion, suprise, suprise, someone goes and types it on again. I thank the person who removed it. Old Kai said for Gohan to do "that Super Saiyan thing" and Gohan achieved his Mystic power-up. Now I don't know what that means to you but to me it means his Mystic power-up as termed is his Super Saiyan fom (or at least implied). Also, even before it was finished, Gohan after waiting for more than 20 hours said his time was up, and when told it wasn't yet time, he powered up in anger. Usually when Saiyans get angry, they turn Super Saiyan. Another point is that DBGT for some unknown reason had Gohan use his Super Saiyan form even though he has the Mystic power-up. I admit that Toriyama played a part in in GT as the creator of the manga that inspired it, but even he would have him use his latent strength against enemies who are getting stronger than before which is one reason why I dislike DBGT. Also, I thank Heat P again for revealing information on Gohan being Akira Toriyama's favorite character. I also learnt that this is part of the reason why Toriyama created Goten. However, fans in Japan wanted Goku, even if Gohan released his full potential which proved his power to be greater than even Goku's. However in the end because of the fans, Goku defeated Majin Buu, instead of Gohan. Although this theory may sound far-fetched, this could be the signs similar to a retro active continuity. When the writer intends for something like say, Gohan defeating Buu then something else happenning contradicting it. In fact, Toriyama could have ended the story twice before he actually did, such as the Cell Saga when Gohan actually was the strongest warrior. Even if Gohan was the strongest unfused character by the time of Kid Buu's defeat, it should be noted that he became a scholar. I'm not entirely sur if hefound the time to train or if he was interested at all but Goku kept improving even in the peacetime. This is my l;ast point on this so if Heat P or MajinVegeta or anyone would like to reply, please do. I'd actually appreciate it. Uglyguy2006

Well, even the term "Mystic" Gohan is a fan term, there is not official Japanese or original English name for him after he has his hidden power released. And I always thought that ultimate Gohan ("mystic") WAS his Super Saiyan form. After Gohan has his power released, Old Kai tells him to attempt to transform into a Super Saiyan, but when Gohan tries to, no transformation actually happens. He stays his regular form (with slight differences) however, it's not enough to be considered a transformation. And GT facts are completely irrelevent as they: 1) aren't consistent with the base facts in DBZ, and 2) Were not Toriyama's work. (non-canon). (I'm MajinVegeta by the way, I changed my name). --VorangorTheDemon 00:26, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you Vorangor. This discussion is over. Let's not talk of this again. Think of it as my birthday present. Uglyguy2006 13:15 21 June 2007

Mystic Gohan was the strongest. Mystic Gohan owned Super Buu. Goku even stated that if he and Vegeta go out and fight Super Buu that he (Super Buu) would kill both of them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.99.172.235 (talk) 03:44, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

The makers of GT screwed up. Gohan was the most powerful fighter at the end of the Buu Saga. When GT came along, the makers made Goku the strongest, then decided to make Vegeta more powerful than Gohan (even before Vegeta became a SS4). I believe it might have been said that Gohan doesn't transform into a Super Saiyan simply because he has no need to. WhySoSerious22 (talk) 06:53, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Let me put this simply. Gohan was the strongest single unfused hero character in DBZ by the end of the Majin Boo Saga. I mean, SSJ3 Gotenks was basically even with Super Boo, but it was obvious that Gohan was helluva stronger than Super Boo at the time his latent abilities was reawakened, even Goten, Trunks and Boo said so. And Rou Dai Kaioshin said that Gohan wouldn't even need the Super Saiyan to defeat Boo anyway. Goku managed to kill Boo only because he used the Spirit Bomb and then overpowered it with the Super Saiyan when Dende wished all of his power back to him using the Dragon Balls. Gohan only got beaten because Boo absorbed Gotenks and Piccolo. Namekian Lord (talk) 12:30, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Mystic Gohan never needed to go Super Saiyan because he was basically a Super Saiyan with enhanced powers, just only in his normal form. And by the way, they did drop the Mystic form in GT, but the same happened at the end of Z, in the last two chapters of DBZ volume 26, where you clearly see a nerdy-looking Gohan without any of the pronouncial features of his Mystic form that you saw early. He must've stopped training, his latent abilities were lost due to his slacking off and...there you go. I mean, when Buu (with Gotenks & Piccolo absorbed) was pummeling Gohan, he could've and should've turned into a Super Saiyan -- but I think then, Gohan was at the limit of his powers and there was no way he could get any stronger. Goku was not stronger than Gohan when Kid Boo arrived. Kid Boo was actually weaker than SSJ3 Goku, even Goku said if he powered up enough energy for one final attack, he could defeat Buu, and Mystic Gohan is more powerful than SSJ3 Goku -- in fact, he could've destroyed Boo if he didn't keep on regenerating from his every attack. The Spirit Bomb was, like, one of the only techniques able to destroy Boo once and for all -- but of course, he was reincarnated as the human boy, Oob. Son Gohan (talk) 15:42, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

In the Manga and Anime, when Gohan attempts to transform, he powers up to "Mystic" or "Ultimate" Gohan, Goku then says "Wow, look at all that energy, I can't wait to see what happens when you turn into a Super Saiyan and face Buu!" to which Gohan replies "Actually I feel a lot stronger this way." This implies that either he turned Super Saiyan to see his power in a time gap between this somehow, or has inner knowledge about his power comparisons. Either way, if Gohan had turned Super Saiyan and felt weaker when he was or thought he would be weaker, this completely destroys the idea that the Earth would explode. Because if he did turn Super Saiyan then the kai planet would explode, and if he felt weaker, then the Earth wouldn't explode anyways, because I don't remember it exploding, except from Buu of course. -Digman14 (talk)10:04, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Pictures

Even though this has nothing to do with this talk except the fact that it is about Mystic Gohan but could we please get a picture of Mystic Gohan on the Gohan page please.The K.O. King30 July 2007

I separated this talk from the previous one. I agree with you, I definintely think that a picture of him in his ultimate form is needed.--VorangorTheDemon 18:28, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Thankyou for agreeing with me. I tried to get a picture on there but apparently I can't do it.The K.O. King

I agree a picture of Gohan's Mystic form is needed (so put it up already).____MysticGohan 06:51, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Like I said I don't really know how to put a pictue up.---The K.O. King —The preceding signed but undated comment was added at 16:42, August 21, 2007 (UTC).