Talk:Gone with the Wind (film)/GA1

Rape and revenge

Does Gone with the Wind belong in the categories "Films about rape" and "Films about revenge?" The film does feature rape and revenge, but I don't think that either of those things defines the film.

why do my comments keep getting REVERTED...and even a msg about "disruptive editing"?! they are reasonable comments and i've just BEGUN editing here! moreover, the ID which keeps doing this to me has their talk page LOCKED.

sorry for posting THIS here, but until that user unlocks the talk page, how else do i resolve this?

moreover, the reversions are SO fast, i wonder if some bot is doing it. is said user actually a real human? 66.30.47.138 (talk) 01:45, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Sounds like a bot committing vandalism. Especially if no reasons are given for reversion. 2.31.164.112 (talk) 05:58, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

the movie is defined by a lot of things, and reduced to opinions that outweigh source material, including from wiki, itself. falsifying history, for example, is weakly defined, to justify it. so is adjusting for inflation, to claim that it still holds the box office record. you might as well go by international gut feeling and say that starwars from 1977, holds the record. considering academy award history, it is fair to say that african americans only get awards if they depict a role that satisfies racists, if they get an award, at all. this movie proves that. so, depending on your political position, you will state what defines this movie. that includes a man point of view vs a woman point of view, whether rape defines this film. 74.109.247.243 (talk) 04:56, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Listing of Cast

Contrary to what is written in the section entitled, "Cast," the four principal actors in the film are listed in traditional within the first two minutes after the opening credits come on screen. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL2yPFxBQQ4 John Paul Parks (talk) 00:26, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Khazar2 (talk · contribs) 02:31, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

I'll be glad to take this review. Initial comments to follow in the next 1-5 days. Thanks in advance for your work on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 02:31, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Initial comments

This an excellent and thorough article on the subject, particularly impressive in its summary of both what's amazing and what's reprehensible in this film. I've made some minor copyedits as I went for grammar and style; please feel free to revert anything you disagree with. Anything I couldn't immediately fix I noted below. And again, thanks for your hard work on this one! It's paid off well.

• The nota bene re: Brent and Stuart could use a source, since it's contradicting the official credits. Also, you might consider moving this to the same section as the other NBs.
  • Put into note format. Source included in the note.
• Cliff Edwards as voice of unseen reminiscent soldier
  • I can't recall if he's unseen or not, but the AFI credits him as the "reminiscent soldier" so have followed suit.
• Yakima Canutt as renegade -- should these two entries each have a "the"? (Like "the amputation case" or "the Yankee deserter"?) Or is this language taken verbatim from the credits?
  • All credits from "Yankee deserter" onwards just credit the actor, not the part. The roles for these "unnamed" parts are sourced through the AFI catalog (source #1).
• "Cukor knew of Clark Gable's early days in Hollywood working as a gigolo on Hollywood's gay circuit, so Gable used his influence to have him discharged" -- Is Gable's past as a gay gigolo absolutely factually established? This seems like a sentence that might benefit from an "According to Author X" in front of it.
  • As in he came out? Not likely, but it seems to be classic Hollywood's worst kept secret. As you can see from this Google search, lots of writers have covered it. We could attribute it to the writer, but in a sense it already is through the citation. This book claims that Joan Crawford supposedly discussed the affair between Gable and Billy Haines, while Barney Oldfield (pictured here with Gable) apparently confirmed the rumors to the writer. I don't really want to go into all this in the article because it is incidental to the topic, but it most likely played a part in why Cukor was fired so that's why it is included. That said I don't mind pulling it out if you are uncomfortable with it, readers can get a full account of his dismissal on the George Cukor article.
    • No, I think you've convinced me. This was news to me but you're right that it appears backed up by other sources, making a regular citation fine.
• "was the greatest moment of his life, the greatest victory and redemption of all his failings" -- is the "his" here Thomson or Selznick? I assume Selznick is meant, but Thomson is the last male referred to in the text.
  • This claim predates my involvement with the article and the source isn't available to me, but since Thomson was born in 1941 I think it's safe to assume he wasn't at the preview in 1939. I've square bracketed Selznick's name to settle any confusion.
• "As well as becoming the first color film to win Best Picture,[49] it also become the longest." -- slightly ambiguous -- the longest film or the longest color film?
  • It was the first color film, and the longest film to win Best Picture up to that point, or at least that's how I interpret the source anyway. It was the longest American sound film ever made at the time too, so that interpretation must be correct. I've reworded it as "As well as becoming the first color film to win Best Picture,[49] it also become the longest Best Picture winner too." If it's still not clear enough feel free to word it as you see fit.
• "went on to sell an estimated sixty million tickets across the United States—sales equivalent to just under half the population at the time" -- this seems like a small bit of original research. First, the 60 million figure is from the film's initial release, and subsequent two re-releases. More importantly, though, this comparison to the US total population doesn't appear in any secondary source provided here. I'd suggest cutting the "sales equivalent to" part.
  • During this period, the big films had tiered releases: the roadshows, general release and then the discount theaters. The 1941 "release" was actually the film's general release as opposed to a "re-release" (as confirmed by Schatz). Some sources (quite a lot actually) refer to the 1941 release as a re-release, but it was not what we would consider a re-release today, where a film is actively withdrawn and then put back into theaters, such as with Titanic last year. It was really just a phase in its overall release schedule. GWTW played until the end of 1943 when it was finally withdrawn from distribution, so I have clarified the 60 million figure to be from that four year period to avoid the confusion. Obviously if the source presents the figure as the result of three releases we shouldn't misrepresent what it says, but I think the information should be presented in a way that is consistent with what we mean by a re-release today.
  • I added the census/population figure to provide some context for the ticket sales, otherwise we are just throwing a figure at readers. I understand the potential OR problem here, but I believe I have stayed on the right side of the line, or at least the sentence could be worded to make sure it remains on the right side. A typical synthesis problem I had to be careful to avoid was to take the 60 million figure and the 130 million population figure and infer that half the population watched GWTW. The OR problem there is the assumption that there were no repeat sales which is why I used the term "equivalent to". Another possible way of wording this would be to say "sold 60 million tickets when the population stood at 130 million" or words to that effect, because I do think it is important to provide a context for the figure, otherwise it may as well be 6 million or 600 million to a reader not familiar with US demographics.
• "Despite being released twenty-five years later, inflation played a smaller part than it usually does in films breaking older box-office records: the top price of a ticket to see Gone with the Wind was $2.20,[59] whereas for The Birth of a Nation it was $2" -- I can't access the second source, but this seems like another small bit of original research. Are there any secondary sources that explicitly make this comparison and evaluation?
  • Yes, you are right, so I have removed this statement, and replaced it with an actual audience figure.
• " MGM earned a rental of $41 million from the release,[65] almost as much as that year's James Bond film, You Only Live Twice ($44 million)" -- another comparison that could use a secondary source
  • Like with the population figure above, I was trying to create some context. However, re-reading that section I think the context is spelt out enough, and this statement doesn't really add much. Indeed, it depends on the reader being familiar with the James Bond films, so as context it is vague, so I have removed the statement.
• "from Senator George of Georgia" -- is it possible to add the senator's first name? Looks like it's Walter F. George.
  • I've added his full name to the caption, on the assumption it is him.
• "where the audience is left in no doubt that she will "get what's coming to her"" -- which of the three sources is this a quotation from?
  • I have spread out the sources in this section so you can see where each specific claim comes from.

Nominator comments

Thanks for reviewing it. I don't have any complaints about the copy-editing, I always get to a point on these articles where I start to see what I think is there rather than what is, no matter how many times I read through. As for your concerns above, I will work my way through them and address each one directly. Betty Logan (talk) 09:20, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick responses. I'm happy with all the above and will start the final checklist.

I came here looking for a reference, long after the fact of this being written. I'd just like to put in my two cents about Cukor's firing, and that's all it is (and probably all it's worth), two cents. I've never believed that story about him and Gable. Cukor was going too slowly for Selznick, number one. Secondly, Selznick was so desperate to have Gable - if Gable knew Cukor was the director, why didn't he ask for another director or say he wouldn't do the movie? Why decide while they're filming that Cukor knew about his past? Gable and Cukor certainly knew one another before this; Cukor filled in on the film Manhattan Melodrama.Chandler75 (talk) 03:38, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Checklist

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	Prose is excellent; spotchecks show no copyright issues.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).
	2c. it contains no original research.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	File:Queen's Theatre 1941.jpg needs a tag for its US copyright status. Temporarily removed from article. Won't be restored unless cleared at Commons. It is a good image--hope we can clear permissions.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
	7. Overall assessment.	Pass