Talk:Gottfried August Bürger

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References in popular culture[edit]

Bram Stoker quoted from Burger’s “Lenore” in the first chapter of Dracula. The line in question is “die Todten reiten schnell”. In my version of Dracula this is on page 8. I have not edited wikipedia before so someone who knows how should include this in the article. 24.205.93.12 (talk) 23:50, 19 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Birthdate: December 31, 1747 or January 1, 1748? The Great Debate[edit]

Scholars debate whether it was December 31 or January 1
Larger version of this picture shows "1 Jan'r. 1748", for what it's worth

I'm sure an interesting explanation of this could be devised Baron Munchausen-style (probably having something to do with giving birth in a balloon traversing the International Dateline), but, alas, that might not be a reliable source. I noticed the discrepancy in the sources because the German Wikipedia has the 1747 date [1] and the English Wikipedia has the 1748 date.

I added the short lists of sources on both sides below, but then found this (for slightly extended quote, see this) (Little, William Alfred, Gottfried August Bürger, Twayne Publishers, 1974, ISBN 9780805721850, retrieved November 27, 2008) in Google Books. Apparently, there's a longstanding controversy about Burger's date of birth (from page 13): [...] the year of his birth was for generations the subject of debate: was it on December 31, 1747 or January 1, 1748 that Burger was born in the village of Molmerswende in the precinct of Falkenstein and the bishopric of Halberstadt? Burger and his family always celebrated his birthday [...] And there the exerpt on Google Books ends, quite dramatically.

Sources found on the Web are divided, but more recent scholarly works seem to favor '47:

So which is it? This generations-long debate is probably worth mentioning in the article, since there are so many sources on each side. Reconsideration (talk) 03:35, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A suitable picture for this grab diskussion can be found here, where his gravestone states "1 Jan'r. 1748".[2] If this matter is discussed in the article, it would be nice to use the pic (it would have to be uploaded to Commons). Reconsideration (talk) 04:13, 28 November 2008 (UTC) It turns out it is on commons. Added here. Reconsideration (talk) 04:46, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It appears that he was born in the last hour of 1747 (and this appears to be supported by the birth register of Molmerswende), but wanted to be born in the first hour of 1748, and always celebrated his birthday on January 1. Here is a PDF of a biography (in German) that supports this claim, and also notes that his tombstone says January 1. The major German biographical works ADB and NDB both agree on 1747. Kusma (talk) 07:59, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There is a nice collection of scanned biographies on this webpage of the museum at his birthplace. The earlier biographies seem to follow the author's wishes, while the later biographies agree on 1747. Kusma (talk) 08:07, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Another source I found in addition to the above says January: The Poets and Poetry of Europe. I think that if the gravestone said January 1, then that was most likely when his family celebrated it (in regards to the end of that google books preview). The story makes sense, he was most likely really born in the waning hours of December 31 but always celebrated it has January 1. I'd say just source both birthdates in the article, or perhaps give a small section regarding this controversy in the article so people are aware of it. --Banime (talk) 14:01, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, and another important quote, using google search to find a bit more of the text: "When Gottfried August was born, evidently earlier than anticipated, the elder Burger crossed out the line and the new year, and recorded his son's birth as ..." from page 13 of Gottfried August Bürger. I think this supports the claim that he was actually born Dec 31, but it was changed to a few hours later to Jan 1 and celebrated that way from then on. --Banime (talk) 14:08, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's a delightful little detail that rounds out the portrayal of Bürger and his father. A short paragraph explaining the conflicting birth dates would not be out of order.--Goodmorningworld (talk) 16:11, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • I went ahead a little too fast (that is, without a footnote) and added this to 1747 in poetry. Perhaps something similar can be added to the biography page. Could someone who can read the German sources (or who feels comfortable using the quotes above), add the information to this article? Here was what I added (anyone please feel free to improve on it on that page or add a footnote, otherwise I'll do it):
Birthdate of Gottfried August Bürger
Gottfried August Bürger (died 1794), German poet and author who wrote stories about Baron von Munchhausen, preferred to think of himself as being born on January 1, 1748, and so celebrated his birthdays on that date. His tombstone is inscribed with it, and many scholars have agreed with him over the generations. Many other scholars, including many modern sources, give December 31, 1747, as the day of birth, as birth records state.
Reconsideration (talk) 12:57, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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