Talk:Grand Duke Konstantin Konstantinovich of Russia

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Comments[edit]

This article itself is bordering on whether it now can be regarded as encyclopedic. The old man in question did apparently not do anything individually prominent. But it is yet more fragmenting to make also separate articles of his less-than-prominent children too. This could be formed to an article that lists and explains this guy and all his non-prominent children and close relatives (i.e, sort of family page) - such gives also better context to all these persons. 217.140.193.123 08:29, 17 August 2005 (UTC)[1][reply]

GD Constantin did do many things that were individully prominent. He translated and performed many plays in Russian and was a great playwright himself, which the article should mention. If you're going to merge all of his sons into a single article, then you could make a page called Konstantinovitchi, which is how they were collectively known. Morhange 21:26, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I made a new page for Prince Konstantin Konstantinovich because the disambiguation page seemed a bit muddy, due to both the Grand Duke and his son redirecting to the same page. I will, however, defer to the majority opinion.

Trjumpet 17:13, 17 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think KR's reputation as a poet earns him his own wikipedia article. But there are so many different ways to refer to him--KR, Konstantin, Constantine, Constantin, Konstantin Konstantinovich Romanov, Grand Duke Konstantin, etc etc etc. That needs to be cleaned up... I don't know how to do that, but someone smarter could take care of it. As for his sons, maybe it would be better to have a separate article about all the Alapaevsk/Alapayevsk martyrs, with a little biographical background about each of them. Info about the other children (who didn't die at Alapaevsk) could be subsumed into the KR main article. JTH 04:00, 26 August 2005

I cannot believe that "martyrdom at Alapayevsk" makes anyone worth an OWN article. If they are terribly noteworthy just as Alapayevsk martyrs, they could be at some such page, such as Alapayevsk martyrs. If they are noteworthy as members of Russian imperial house, then they are mentioned in some such list. Anyway, they could be presented in their father's page as requested above (at least the father has here an own article, where his offspring can also be presented). 217.140.193.123 12:50, 10 September 2005 (UTC)[1][reply]

Requested move (1)[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Consistency in transliteration with the other Romanovs. Also the K matches the usual transliteration of his pseudonym, and a quick Google earns about 8 times more hits for the K version than the C version.

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~

Discussion[edit]

As a personal "young" friend of the late Princess Vera Konstantinovna Romanov, I can assure you, that in Russian translation the name is spelled with a "K" and without an "E" ending. I myself, am Konstantin Konstantinovich, and was a very close friend to Vera Konstantinovna when she lived and died in Valley Cottage. K.K.H.

  • Support: Konstantin (with or without the 'e') is what he is always refered to as, even in books in English. As his nickname is KR, it would probably be better to move it to Konstantin anyway. Morhange 00:03, 10 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • comment. KR is not a good basis, as you will never get "Romanov" to his heading here in Wikipedia. The heading could very well use "c" and then somewhere in the text you mention KR and Konstantin Romanov as its origin. Arrigo 10:16, 17 September 2005 (UTC)[1][reply]
  • Oppose. Unnecessary move. I believe the name with "c" is the usual English version. We should keep some consistency between various Konstantins, you see Constantine the Great is with c as are very many others, and they are the origin of this guy's name too. Arrigo 08:27, 16 September 2005 (UTC)[1][reply]
    • Comment Actually, no. The vast majority of references that I have found to this person use the K version of the name, not the C. As for Constantine the Great, that would have merit if we were discussing a Grand Duke of Byzantium, but not a Grand Duke of Russia. Caerwine 12:29, 16 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • comment to comment False example. In Byzantium, they were Konstantinos and in Rome Constantinus, and yet in english they are Constantine, with "c". I mean this when I say that the usual english version of the same name is written with "c". Everyone understands that it is the same name, therefore no need to diversify its written version here in Wikipedia. Why should every language have separate transliterations of same names here, when we have the policy WP:Use English. That policy means that we should not adopt translitarations if an english version exists. Transliteration is to be used only if there is no English version - thus, we have Mark Antony and not Marcus Antonius. Arrigo 10:10, 17 September 2005 (UTC)[1][reply]
        • comment³ But in this case, Konstantin is the form that predominates in English. Constantin is the minority form. And as I pointed out, the other members of the extended Romanov clan with the same name listed under K in WIkipedia, including his father, Konstantin Nikolaevich. Caerwine 13:48, 17 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Not necessarily because of the Google search (don't really like relying on that too much). But I just checked the russian version of this article, and he is written with a cyrillic Константин so I say probably best to follow suit and write with a K. Gryffindor 01:16, 12 October 2005 (UTC) ps: I've noticed that User:Arrigo has been very busy moving all the other "K"onstantin articles of the Grand Dukes :-( Probably a major cleanup operation to revert that would be in order.[reply]

Discision[edit]

Moved. Ryan Norton T | @ | C 00:43, 15 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Note[edit]

  1. ^ a b c d user Arrigo = user 217.140.193.123 - and collecting material for writing another episode of wikipedia:lamest edit wars ever and/or BJAODN, which he does regularly under both names. --Francis Schonken 10:01, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Arrigo has moved all of the entries for KR's children from Konstantinovich/vna to the form with the C, as well as the name and patronyms of his father and siblings. I think we need to settle on a correct form, because all of the entries still introduce the subject as 'so-and-so Konstantinovich'. Morhange 23:59, 21 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I think we can pretty much settle back to the old "K" versions how they used to be before this Arrigo decided to move them all on purpose. Gryffindor 01:50, 12 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

К. Р. У ОЗЕРА 

           М. Д. Давыдову

Усталый сын земли, в дни суетных забот,
Средь мелочных обид и светского волненья,
У озера в лесу ищу уединенья.
Не налюбуешься прозрачной гладью вод:
В ней словно тайная есть сила притяженья.
Не оттого ль меня так к озеру влечет,
Что отражается в струях его порою
Вся глубина небес нетленною красою -
И звезд полуночных лучистый хоровод,
И утро ясное румяною зарею,
И светлых облаков воздушная семья?
Не оттого ль, что здесь, хоть и пленен землею,
К далеким небесам как будто ближе я?

5 октября 1889, близ станции Белой

It is said in the article that without the publication of his diaries, nobody would know that he was homosexual, but that is not true : in the preface of her biography about Tchaikovsky, Nina Berberova wrote that several Grand dukes are homosexual :

Serguei Alexandrovitch, uncle of the czar. Nicolas Mikhaïlovitch, cousin of Alexander III. Constantin, grandson of Nicolas the First. Oleg, son of Constantin and two other sons of Constantin. Dimitri, brother of Constantin. Dimitri Pavlovitch, cousin of Nicolas the Second. and the Prince Yousoupov." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.212.185.96 (talk) 23:34, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merger proposal[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
merged


Princess Natalia Constantinovna of Russia should be merged to this article because the princess is a non-notable stub whose life and death are summarized in two or three short sentences. Her siblings who lived through the revolution or who died in it are arguably notable. This princess is not. We don't need genealogical entries. Charles 05:15, 10 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support merge I can live with merging this, provided the entire contents of the article and reference are moved to Grand Duke Konstantin's article. If I remember right, I created the article because there was a red link for Princess Natalia's name on a box listing all of the Romanovs. I do think the information about her death and its effect on her family is of some interest, but a separate article for a 3-month-old baby might be unnecessary. --Bookworm857158367 (talk) 16:40, 10 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Requested move (2)[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 11:15, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]


Grand Duke Constantine Constantinovich of Russia → Grand Duke Konstantin Konstantinovich of Russia – That is his name, not the current stylized. More ghits and many reliable sources confirm it. Regards. Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 15:28, 10 March 2013 (UTC) --Tomcat (7) 12:41, 27 February 2013 (UTC) Tomcat[reply]

  • Also, it was moved without discussion in 2008, and the mover's reason was not clear.--Tomcat (7) 12:43, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: If you want to convince the rest of us, it might be an idea to provide evidence of those Google hits, and some idea of the figures. You can get a Google search to show practically anything, depending on what you input into the search parameters. Skinsmoke (talk) 15:18, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Grand Duke Konstantin Konstantovich" with quotation marks resulted in 72800 hits and 1430 hits in Gbooks (while "Grand Duke Constantine Constantinovich" 61.400 hits and 618 hits in Gbooks). Reliable sites as [2] Tchaikovsky Through Others' Eyes - Seite 168 Tracking a Diaspora: Émigrés from Russia and Eastern Europe in the... and Dostoevsky: The Mantle of the Prophet, 1871-1881 all use the suggested name.--Tomcat (7) 16:24, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Thanks, that's better. However (and honest, I'm not trying to make you jump through hoops) you need to exclude the alternative version from the search parameters (to cut out those items that use both names) and also exclude Wikipedia. You also need to confine your search to English sites, which is best done using an Advanced Google search. If you think useage has changed recently, it is probably best to limit your search to the last year. On top of all that, it is worth paging through to the last page of the hits to see what they are giving as unduplicated hits. And please link to your search results! I did a quick check, and to be honest, the results suggested the C version was more common, but I haven't had time to look at the results in detail to see how reliable those sources are. At the moment, I think this proposal needs a bit more work. Skinsmoke (talk) 17:33, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Transliteration is a style issue, not the content issue. Googling around trying to figure out which transliterated spelling is more common than another is very much a waste of time for everyone (unless one such spelling clearly dominates over any other, which isn't the case here). And as far as style goes, the proposed title conforms better. Thus, support.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); March 20, 2013; 12:40 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Writer[edit]

KR is primary notable as a one of the greatest Silver Age poets and playwrights, it is a shame that we do not have a section on his writings. Alex Bakharev (talk) 08:15, 9 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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