Talk:Grand Palais

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File:Salon de locomotion aerienne 1909 Grand Palais Paris.jpg[edit]

I am requesting local undeletion of this image at Wikipedia:Requests_for_undeletion/Current_requests#File:Salon de locomotion aerienne 1909 Grand Palais Paris.jpg. Does anyone have more information on the source (for example: photographer, when and where published) of this or similar images? -84user (talk) 14:58, 6 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I can't help with information, sorry. I just wanted to say what a wonderful picture it is. Wow! Awien (talk) 17:35, 6 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
CC By-SA 30 61.245.171.101 (talk) 18:06, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@84user 61.245.171.101 (talk) 18:10, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Work in progress[edit]

I have deleted the incomprehensible machine-translated paragraphs from the article, and am at work now on an abridged real translation from the French Wikipédia. Hopefully it shouldn't take too long . . . Awien (talk) 23:17, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

OK, a start at least. Any help from the fairies in improving the layout will be more than welcome ^_-
Awien (talk) 01:28, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I was the one who edited the Grand Palais article with text translated from the corresponding article on the Spanish Wikipedia. The Spanish version of this article has attained featured article status; the French version, however, has not. Also, you may have removed some valuable information when you (Awien) edited the article, and we want to have this article promoted to GA or FA status as well. More valuable information is removed, and we may end up in an edit war, and we do not want that to happen. Jim856796 (talk) 12:07, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Jim: by all means [let's] aim for GA or FA status. Pasting in large blocks of garbled machine translation is not, however, the way to achieve that. Just look at the first sentence of what you added this morning: "Construction work began in spring 1897 with the gradual demolition of the Palace of Industry, who vanished definitively in 1899, while three teams chosen by each architect advanced under each plan of work at their own pace and learn." It isn't good English, it isn't a proper sentence, it doesn't make sense. It needs to be rewritten into real English. Are you planning to do that?
Secondly, additional information needs to be incorporated into to the appropriate part of the article so as to respect a coherent structure and flow, and avoid repetitions.
Thirdly, if there is any conflict between the information in the French and Spanish articles, it is far more likely that it is the French that is the more trustworthy, for obvious reasons.
Lastly, information is only valuable if it's comprehensible. Translation is fine, machine translation is a long way yet from having reached that point. I know, I am a language specialist.
Awien (talk) 17:09, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I have put all of the translated text from the article's Spanish version. If you want to transform the (poorly) translated text into cleaner English, feel free to do so. If that job is done, it should be promoted to B-class status at the least. Jim856796 (talk) 19:50, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Jim:
I have removed all the machine-translated text taken from Spanish WP as per this policy:
Translation takes work. Machine translation, especially between unrelated languages (e.g. English and Japanese), produces very low quality results. Wikipedia consensus is that an unedited machine translation, left as a Wikipedia article, is worse than nothing. The translation templates have links to machine translations built in automatically, so all readers should be able to access machine translations easily.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Translation
I have removed the incorrect tag. The article contains content other than the sections machine-translated from Spanish WP. If you wish to add information from Spanish WP, you need to translate it yourself, even if imperfectly. Somebody might then help with cleanup. A machine-translated text, however, cannot be “improved”: it is corrupt. The only viable option is to start afresh from the original. For me, that won’t be Spanish.
Incidentally, the French article predates the Spanish one by two years, for what that’s worth.
I have restored the tag that identified my work as a translation from French WP, since that is what it is.
If you want to make a useful contribution to Wikipedia, what you are doing here is not the way.
Awien (talk) 22:47, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Frankly, the best way to get this start-class article to GA status is to use text translated from a corresponding article on a foreign-language Wikipedia which has attained FA or GA status. In foreign language Wikipedias, there is only GA and FA status, no A-, B-, or C-class status. I put in that machine-translated text so that a user can clean it up. You, however, threw it all away. I am going to call a translator who is fluent in both Spanish and English to translate text from the Spanish article to the English article and help promote it to GA or FA status. Jim856796 (talk) 23:38, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Jim856796: I was about to applaud this initiative - when a section of the same garbled machine translation appeared again with only a couple of trivial alterations. I have removed it again, and remind you again that "an unedited machine translation, left as a Wikipedia article, is worse than nothing". Please refrain from making these unconstructive edits. Awien (talk) 02:22, 11 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Can we get somebody other than you to translate text from the Spanish Wikipedia article into the English version of this article? I wanted somebody else to clean it up, not for you to delete it altogether. There is no way this article is going to reach GA or FA status the way it is right now. Jim856796 (talk) 12:41, 11 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

[Moving back to the left - too many colons to count]. Jim856796: as should be abundantly clear from all that I have said, if you or anyone contribute appropriate content to this article or any other I am following, you will get no argument from me. (Appropriate content does not include passages of machine translation, which is almost invariably too garbled to be "cleaned up"). As for me, I too am of course equally entitled to contribute appropriate content as time and inclination allow. Awien (talk) 17:02, 11 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

ja95014 here: I have a request for the experts working on this article. I have visited Paris a dozen times in the past 40 years, and one of my favorite sculptures is the Apollo(?) with the 4 horses at the top corner of the Grand Palace. I prefer the one closer to the Seine, but either corner is great. I am assuming this scultpure represents Apollo, and the other, on closer inspection, is probably not Apollo. If you could add a paragraph on these two sculptures identifying the subject and the sculptor(s), I would love to see it. And THANKS for your hard, cooperative work on this article! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ja95014 (talk • contribs) 19:01, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Quick answer per French WP:
Du côté des Champs-Élysées : « L’Immortalité devançant le Temps » ; ( Champs-Élysées side: Immortality overtaking Time)
Du côté de la Seine : « L’Harmonie triomphant de la Discorde ». (Seine side: Harmony triumphing over Discord)
Will try to add to article time permitting.
Awien (talk) 19:17, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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Layout for expanded article?[edit]

If the English version of the Grand Palais article is going to be expanded significantly enough for Good or Featured Article status, which layout of its foreign-language counterparts should it be modeled after? There's French, Spanish, Catalan, and Asturian. The latter three versions have Featured Article status while the French version, ironically, doesn't. Jim856796 (talk) 05:14, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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