Talk:Gravemind

Origin of the term

There seems to be some confusion as to who coined the term. Some think that it is the Covenant, and some think that it is the Forerunner. I seem to distinctly remember reading something about "Protocols for a pre-gravemind infection" being referenced by either a terminal or some other forerunner related text, somewhere in the game. i'm looking into this as we speak. Also, i believe that in the viral marketing campaign "Iris" for Halo 3 there were mentions of "graveminds" in some of the fragments of the forerunner text that were included as rewards. Any confirmation would be appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.158.69.250 (talk) 06:32, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

-Just confirmed...in the custom game level select, the map "Containment" is described: "Containment protocols are almost impervious to pre-gravemind infestations. What could possibly go wrong?" This seems to prove that the forerunners did indeed coin the phrase, as it is used by forerunner AI in the game, and in reference to a map that is a forerunner facility, with forerunner sentinels passing by ever so often during play. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.158.69.250 (talk) 06:40, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Since when has the description for each map been confirmed to be by a Forerunner AI? The descriptions appear to simply be written by a nuetral Bungie narrarator, and the terminals themselves - which contain actual transcripts of Forerunner conversations - refer to it as "thinking dead." Peptuck (talk) 04:02, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

i suppose youre right...but the terminals, and the previous forerunner literature from the Iris game, state that it is a "Mind". While its true they dont call it a Gravemind, im certain ive heard, in one of the games, either guilty spark or pennetant tangent refer to it as a gravemind...still looking into it. good idea removing it altogether tho. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexc88 (talk • contribs) 04:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

No, neither Guilty Spark nor Penitent Tangent mentioned the term Gravemind; to my knowledge, the only characters to say the name out loud in the games are Cortana and 'Rtas Vadum. Dac (talk) 08:27, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Origins of the "second" Gravemind?

I have not seen this anywhere, perhaps somone can help, or add this, but how did the Gravemind come to be on Installation 05? The only thing I can think of is that after the Forerunners initial firing of the rings, the original Gravemind for some reason settled on that Halo and managed to capture the ring's AI. Some people talk about two graveminds, but I think there was always only one.... maybe I missed something.

Halo 1 - Installation 04 - The Flood Rangers are accidentally released from containment by either Covenant or Humans, and quickly spread and infect, but are ultimately contained.

Halo 2 - Installation 05 - The Gravemind and Flood Rangers are already present and free, infect, and escape to superluminal ships. Yet the Covenant knew of this ring already?

Halo 3 - Installation 00 - The Gravemind deactivates the rings (with help) and after being largely destroyed on High Charity attempts to rebuild itself on the 04 replacment before it is fired.

Thanks,

In the cutscene at the end of Floodgate, Half-Jaw states the term "a Gravemind" referring to it. I'm not certain and I don't think we can comment on this without a verifiable source, but saying "a Gravemind" instead of "the Gravemind" indicates that the Covenant know at least something about the Gravemind type, and that there may be more than one. If this is what he meant, well, the Covenant could be wrong, but we have no way of knowing exactly what they mean unless Bungie comments. So for now we'll have to leave it out as OR and speculation, though it's an interesting point. Dac 23:12, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

"Shoot"

When Cortana said "All right, shoot" at the end of Halo 2, I thought she meant "shoot" as the common phrase meaning "ask", as the Gravemind had said "Now I will ask and you will answer". The info on this page suggests that she said "shoot" as an expression of unahppiness. Did anyone else think this? Salty!^Talk! 19:03, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztWqlFmlnXY

She does seem to be saying "Alright, ask."

Shakespeare

Does it strike anyone else that "Silence fills the empty grave now that I have gone" is pretty similar to a couple of Shakespeare's sonnets? Specifically, Sonnet 71 comes to mind...-Interested2 00:53, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, and it's not surprising at all. Shakespeare's powerful poetic verse is very powerful dramatically, and it is more widely used than most people realize, even in sci-fi 1st person shooters like Halo.Doncroft 17:15, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Non-Fiction Character?

How is the Gravemind a Non-Fiction Character. Did someone run into him on the street the other day or something? I'm pretty sure that line needs to be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.50.151.8 (talk • contribs)

Five Flood Varients

At the end of the article it says Gravemind is one of 5 Flood variants, but what are these? Surely they must be cited somewhere, otherwise the statement would be found false. -23_PatPeter*∞ 17:58, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Picture

How about a picture of Gravemind? Its a bit hard to see him clearly, but I think I found a good photo.

It also shows the Arbiter and Master Chief in his grasp to the right in his tentacles. (Also, does anyone else think when Gravemind's mouth is closed, it looks a bit like Master Chief's visor?

[1] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 138.89.178.218 (talk) 21:08, 16 April 2007 (UTC).

True Meter?

The bottom of the page List of Halo Series Characters says, "The Gravemind is a large sentient creature of Flood origin, introduced during the events of Halo 2 and speaks in iambic heptameter. Its motives remain unclear." This article says he speaks in trochaic heptameter, and I'm not an expert in poetry, but one of these must be wrong.

Gravemind - primary antagonist

Why does this keep getting removed? Anyone with a brain stem can tell that the Flood are one of the primary enemies in Halo, and that the Flood in Halo 2 and Halo 3 are controlled by the Gravemind, and serve as the "real" enemy that beat out the Covenant in terms of danger and significance. So, what's the justification for constantly removing this, because an IP editor has been continuously removing this simple and obvious fact without any justifaction. Peptuck (talk) 03:40, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, this is solid fact. Any further removals of it without justification can be classed as vandalism, I think. Dac (talk) 23:44, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Trochaic heptameter cite?

I have looked thoroughly for a citation for the trochaic heptameter but I can't find anything that isn't either a forum post or related to a Wikipedia article (or past version of a WP article). I know that it is a trochaic heptameter, but it seems like original research. Can anyone find a source (online or offline in a book like The Halo Effect)? James086^{Talk | Email} 09:36, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I've heard iambic heptameter, meself, which I cited from one page; but I dunno... David Fuchs ^(talk) 21:41, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually strike that, I'm not a poetry expert, it just seemed right based on what I had read. If there are sources saying iambic, then they are more likely to be right than me. James086^{Talk | Email} 02:20, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Its iambic heptameter and the independent sources say so as well [2]. - Caribbean~H.Q. 03:56, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Here's a quote that helps explain why it does so, if you need it: "I have the memories of many poets far beyond your limited human culture. And I have the quickness of intellect to compose all manner of poetic forms as I speak rather than labor over mere words for days." Taken from Halo evolutions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.132.79.61 (talk) 21:28, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Gravemind

I thought the said in Halo3 that he was a combination of flood is this true?Poohman0 (talk) 00:56, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

GA review

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   Well done. Question though, in the second paragraph of the lead, the sentence "Making its first appearance in Halo 2, the introduction of the Gravemind was meant to dispel...", should "the" be next to Gravemind, since it happens to be a character.

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

2. Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):

   C. It contains no original research:

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   I have gone off and passed the article to GA, as I did not find anything troubling while reading the article. As a fan of the Halo series, everyone who contributed to the article did a fine job with describing Gravemind's motives. Congratulations on everyone for their hard effort.

--  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 00:28, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Reception

This section is biased. Can we find some reveiws supporting Gravemind? The author of this section obviously shares the point of veiw of the negativity displayed within.

I don't think its fair to say Dave Fuchs is biased against Gravemind; one just has to look at the massive, balanced contributions he's given to the Halo series here as a whole to see that he's completely professional and unbiased about any additions he makes. Having worked with him on this wiki for a long time, I can say that if he could find a positive review favoring Gravemind's character he definitely would have added it. Peptuck (talk) 16:38, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't get the confusion about his motives at all. The character may possess intelligence, but he is still a disease. His sole motive is to spread. But then, I've never held 1UP reviewers in high regard anyway.--24.147.62.26 (talk) 16:34, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

It's more complicated in canon. He's a giant hive mind, with vast intelligence, on a level beyond human compression. It's personality is vastly alien. It's not even strictly evil, it thinks that it doesn't deserve the scorn and hate given towards the flood. 69.132.79.61 (talk) 21:26, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Mendicant Bias and the Age of the Forerunners

Should the "Gravemind" article include a passage about the conversations (and the subsequent repercussions) that took place when the Mendicant Bias was unleashed against Gravemind? I think this has a significant impact on the story, figuring it ultimately lead to the activation of the rings... and it would help explain why he manages to gain so much control over a computer AI such as Cortana. Cransona (talk) 18:46, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

We need reliable sources for such info; unfortunately places like Ascendant Justice and the like do not qualify. --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 18:59, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Audrey vs Audrey II

I changed the last sentence to read "... the Gravemind's resemblance to Audrey II." In both the movies and the play Little Shop of Horrors, Audrey was the female love interest of Seymour. As such he named the carnivorous alien "fly-trap" Audrey II in her honor. Thus, Gravemind would resemble Audrey II not Audrey. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.178.50.157 (talk) 02:59, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Well, the sources specifically say Audrey. We know what they mean, but the verified sources don't append the -II. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 17:24, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Actually the source says: "the plant-creature from Little Shop of Horrors." As there was no mention of either "Audrey" or "Audry II" in the source I changed it back to the correct character name as per IMDB. Little Shop of Horrors Furthermore, Wikipedia itself has ruled on this as the official page for the 1986 movie explicitly states, "He names the plant 'Audrey II' in honor of Audrey." Little Shop of Horrors (film) If I need to add either of these links to the references at the bottom of the article I will but I should hope "we know what they mean." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.178.50.157 (talk) 22:01, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

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