Talk:Greece in the Eurovision Song Contest 2008/GA2
GA Reassessment[edit]
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Concerns[edit]
I am doing a GA review on Portugal in the Eurovision Song Contest 2008 and my feeling is that the article is rather thin on encyclopedic material, so I wanted to point people to examples of other Eurovision Song Contest articles that had achieved GA status. Upon looking into this one and Ireland in the Eurovision Song Contest 2008 I felt that they both were also not broad in coverage, so I will be listing them both for review. As these articles are designed to be sub-articles of both the Eurovision Song Contest 2008 and the Greece in the Eurovision Song Contest (Portugal .... / Ireland ...) articles, a reader would assume that they would go into considerable detail about the topic. I would expect decent coverage of the song itself (Secret Combination (song), which has a detailed article) and the singer (Kalomoira, who also has a decent article), as well as the composer Konstantinos Pantzis and lyricist (Poseidonas Giannopoulou). The information is available, it just needs someone willing to do the research and writing to bring it into the article in an appropriate manner. A summary of Greece in the Eurovision Song Contest would also be useful, as this is a standalone article, not a section within another article. It needs, as such, to stand by itself, and give enough information to satisfy the general reader - with a link to the main articles for when people want greater detail. There is a lot of interest in the Eurovision Song Contest - and I can see these being very popular and useful article. It is also important to get these articles right, as they will be used as examples of Eurovision Song Contest articles for others to follow. My concerns are mainly related to broad coverage, though I also feel that the prose could be sharpened, and perhaps one or two other aspects may need tidying up, but I haven't yet given this a close analysis. SilkTork *YES! 12:23, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I did realize maybe a month ago upon reading it over that the prose was a little bumpy at parts, but I was also under the impression that the article was complete. I feel like there isn't much more that could be added without duplicating information from other pages. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 14:57, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- As these articles are meant to stand alone, there is going to be some duplication of material from other places - but all of Wikipedia is information duplicated from other pages. That's the nature of an encyclopedia. I think you'll find it's not that difficult to expand the article into something more comprehensive given the material already available both here on Wiki and on the net. And once into the swing of it, all the other Country in the ESC by year articles will be easy to do. Certainly the history/background section will be mainly repeated, with simple updating for each increasing year. I'm not suggesting something big for those sections, but at least putting it in context so a reader does not have to keep going out of the article for basic information. I'll do something rough in a moment so you can see what I mean, and then use that as the basis for developing the other articles. SilkTork *YES! 15:31, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I feel like this is all necessary, more than one GA editor found the content to be complete, so I'm not jumping to make these additions. I looked at your changes on Portugal in the Eurovision Song Contest 2008 [1] and find them to not be needed. Sure it may be convenient to have it, but that is the point of the wikilinks - to find more information. I feel like the sections break up the flow of the page and make it a jumble of information. The biography of the singer and performer do not need their own section, like I said you could click the link if you really wanted to know more. Her biography does not really add much to the article, which should be about her participation, not past achievements. If I am the only one who feels this way, I'll guess I'll have to suck it up, but I suggest you contact the past reviewers and get their opinions while also waiting for members of WikiProject Eurovision to weigh in. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 18:59, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I have already notified the original reviewers. The additions I have made to Portugal in the Eurovision Song Contest 2008 are simply rough unsourced cut and pastes from other Wiki articles, and are intended as nothing more than suggestions of a way that the articles can be developed. I would expect at the least in an article on a Eurovision song to have some details of the song itself (other than the title). There is a bit about the song in this article, but it takes a while to find it - "an R&B style upbeat song with a Greek feel" - and that summary of the song is not cited. However you may feel about my suggestions of a way forward, I think the current state of the articles are not acceptable as Good Articles, and a way forward needs to be found. I'll leave it up to you folks as the experts on the Eurovision to develop this further. I haven't finished looking at this article yet, and will give some more feedback later. SilkTork 20:23, 2 January 2009
- I feel like this is all necessary, more than one GA editor found the content to be complete, so I'm not jumping to make these additions. I looked at your changes on Portugal in the Eurovision Song Contest 2008 [1] and find them to not be needed. Sure it may be convenient to have it, but that is the point of the wikilinks - to find more information. I feel like the sections break up the flow of the page and make it a jumble of information. The biography of the singer and performer do not need their own section, like I said you could click the link if you really wanted to know more. Her biography does not really add much to the article, which should be about her participation, not past achievements. If I am the only one who feels this way, I'll guess I'll have to suck it up, but I suggest you contact the past reviewers and get their opinions while also waiting for members of WikiProject Eurovision to weigh in. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 18:59, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- As these articles are meant to stand alone, there is going to be some duplication of material from other places - but all of Wikipedia is information duplicated from other pages. That's the nature of an encyclopedia. I think you'll find it's not that difficult to expand the article into something more comprehensive given the material already available both here on Wiki and on the net. And once into the swing of it, all the other Country in the ESC by year articles will be easy to do. Certainly the history/background section will be mainly repeated, with simple updating for each increasing year. I'm not suggesting something big for those sections, but at least putting it in context so a reader does not have to keep going out of the article for basic information. I'll do something rough in a moment so you can see what I mean, and then use that as the basis for developing the other articles. SilkTork *YES! 15:31, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
I actually disagree with you. Every country has a different selection process every year, different amount of songs, different amount of singers, ect. There is no way you can have 1 format for every country. You can have a common guideline of information to provide (like it is now) but not the same exact format. I actually think that Greece in ESC 2008 provides substantial information already. It provides information about the songs in the running, who composed them, ect. For example, on the portugal page, there is a whole section on "Producers", which is completely irrelevant to Greece in ESC. Other than that, all the info is already in the article, but just in a different format that fits the selection process better. (Besides and artist bio which I honestly do not think is needed on this page. This is about the contest, not what she has done. That is what linking is for) Greekboy (talk) 19:40, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- It's worth pointing out that Eurovision Song Contest uses a similar approach of summary style sections. However, as there have been two objections, and I think it's worth getting a wider view on this as it does impact on a number of Eurovision articles and the best way forward for them, I'll open this up for a Community reassessment. SilkTork *YES! 19:45, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I wouldn't object to maybe further describing the composer, singer, and song, but what you are proposing is too much. It chops up the article with subsections full of information irrelevant to the contest and breaks the flow. I remember the all of the 2006 articles being put up for deletion for being basically biographies of the performer and full of information found in other places, that is not what these articles are about. You may have your ideas of what the article should include, but you do not work with these articles on a daily basis, and the WikiProject has decided what the articles should and should not include. This of course could be altered based on consensus, but members of the project don't seem to agree with it. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 15:58, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Community reassessment[edit]
Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Greece in the Eurovision Song Contest 2008/1. SilkTork *YES! 13:44, 17 January 2009 (UTC)