Talk:Gregor Robertson (politician)/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Opinion presented as news

The July 6 reference is an opinion article, not a true news story, and as such is not considered a reliable source. It needs to be replaced with a real news article or the entire paragraph should be removed. 98.248.32.178 (talk) 17:23, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and added additional citations to news articles. Your other changes help clarify things as well. Thank you. ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 17:56, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Series of back and forth non-neutral edits

There appears to be a lot of controversial editing being done by users such as:

Citywatcher311, City Bogus, Faniel.dontaine, Kike.mlassen, 72.80,4.85, 24.184.150.93, and Another Concerned Vancouverite.

Looking into this a bit, it appears that Faniel.dontaine and Kike.mlassen are simple name changes of Daniel.Fontaine and Mike.Klassen who are editors of a blog called citycaucus.com. It appears that the two editor accounts are attempts by the blogs opponents (city hall) to reverse edits taking the perspective of that blog. This clearly needs to be looked at by a neutral party to avoid these back and forths which are reducing the overall quality and neutrality of the article and its claims.Angrybrit (talk) 01:29, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Concerned Vancouverite and Angrybrit.

Looking into this, it appears that both users are attempting to ammend the article for political purpose, using numerous citations to the political attack blog of the Non Partisan Association, run by Chief of Staff to the former Mayor, Sam Sullivan. Faniel.dontaine (talk) 07:38, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

My comments:

Regarding the issue of the staff resignations, while the sources certainly support the fact that a number of high-level city staff resigned, they don't support any assertion that Robertson had anything to do with it. So I'm not too clear on why we should bother mentioning them in this article at all, because there's no evidence that it's relevant to him specifically.
"Bubble boy" needs to go. It's a partisan epithet rather than substantive criticism, there's no explanation given of what the term actually means in application to Robertson beyond "a couple of his decisions were controversial", and a substantial portion of its referencing is clearly to a partisan political blog. There's really not a compelling reason for it to be here.
The bike lane stuff, on the other hand, does appear to be legitimate content that there's not much reason for us not to include. It's legitimately sourced, and presents both sides of a genuine issue — I'm willing to listen if somebody can explain a genuine reason to exclude it from the article, but on my own I'm just not seeing it.

— Bearcat (talk) 16:24, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

The CBC linked the staff resignations to Gregor Robertson in this article on April 28th, 2009: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/04/28/bc-james-ridge-quits-vancouver.html with this quote: "Ridge is the fifth senior manager at city hall to leave following the election of Mayor Gregor Robertson and a slate of Vision Vancouver party members to council last November." The Vancouver Sun on April 28th, 2009 (http://www.vancouversun.com/Technology/Mayor+blames+agenda+Olympics+bureaucrats+resignations/1542273/story.html) stated, "Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson said Tuesday his aggressive new agenda and the looming 2010 Olympics are probably responsible for some of the resignations of high-profile bureaucrats." So the mayor attributed it to his own agenda, as reported by the major city paper. That same article refers to the departure of Rogers as a "dismissal in November." I think this is pretty convincing linkage in major news sources. ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 16:37, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

You're falling afoul of the logical fallacy that correlation automatically implies causation. The CBC quote says that some senior managers left following the election of Robertson — it does not say that they left because of Robertson. And furthermore, even if a couple of senior managers did leave because they didn't want to serve under an NDP-associated mayor, that would be a reflection on them, not on Robertson. For it to be relevant to Robertson, there would need to be some evidence that he exerted political influence to force them out — which there hasn't been. Bearcat (talk) 16:45, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

An article in the Georgia Straight on December 12, 2008 regarding Judy Roger's departure (http://www.canada.com/vancouvercourier/news/story.html?id=f6280b1d-6657-468f-8f84-5935d304bf2a) states, "Rogers said she will receive a severance package but declined to reveal details. Rogers earned almost $300,000 in 2007. Rogers’ last day as city manager was Thursday. She said Robertson informed her Thursday night that council no longer wanted her on the job." So this states pretty clearly Robertson did not want the city manager on the job and asked her to leave. To receive a severance package she chose to leave and agreed to it, as would be commonplace. That same article quotes Rogers as saying, “It is their right—they are the mayor and council and I’m cooperating with them” which links it pretty clearly to Robertson's desires and her going along to avoid difficulties. That same article also states, "Asked whether Rogers told Vision Vancouver that she couldn’t lead a city under the party, Robertson said that wasn’t the case." It goes on to quote Robertson as, "...we were reviewing options and looking at complementing the big change politically with new leadership with city staff and this opportunity presented itself" and then, "It felt like it’s the right time to make that change and work with a new city manager at implementing our agenda for change." This pretty clearly points to Robertson's role in that departure, the fact that it was part of his perceived political change and seems like it is critical for a reader to understand that Robertson was "cleaning house." ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 17:14, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Again, you're insisting that we overplay something that's a completely normal and unremarkable part of any change in control of an elected political body. The point was, and still is, that in order to be relevant in this article, we would need to show evidence that he did something illegal or unethical — which there still hasn't been any evidence presented that he did. Bearcat (talk) 19:30, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for explaining your concerns. While I agree that it is normal to have turnover of staff positions when government changes, the number of changes appear to me to be politically significant, which is why I do think it should be in the article. But apparently you disagree and we may have to agree to disagree on this point.ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 22:06, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

A report by the CBC (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/03/19/bc-judy-rogers-buyout.html) on March 19, 2009 states, "Vision Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson has always maintained his top priority when he came into office was to end homelessness in the city. But according to the minutes from a closed-door meeting on Dec. 12, one of the new council's first actions four days after Robertson's inauguration was to pay the 20-year veteran of city hall a total package worth $572,000 to leave." The article goes on to say, "In December, Robertson would only say Rogers was asked to leave because it fit into his new council's "agenda for change."" ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 17:25, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Educational background: The article at http://www.shared-vision.com/sv-features/20070730/gregor-robertson-sustainabilitys-superman very clearly states that Gregor Robertson's "application to UBC’s medical school was rejected." It goes on to talk about how that was a major transitional moment in his life career. I think that needs to be added back as well, as it apparently led to the rest of his life path including his political career. ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 16:40, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Since there was no objection raised during the period the article was locked. I went ahead and added the portion about the medical school rejection. A new user quickly reverted the edit, and I have sent a note User_talk:UpsetVancouverite requesting that the user discuss their concerns rather than engaging in an edit war.ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 03:32, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Anti-Semitic editor name: One of the editors that has been regularly editing this article with a pro-Robertson slant has a name that is Anti-Semitic and rather offensive "Kike.mlassen" I am confused as to why a supporter of city hall would stoop to such low levels in a public forum. ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 17:16, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

In the absence of evidence that the editor purposely intended an anti-Semitic meaning, I as an admin am not going to treat it as anything more than what's already been pointed out, which is that it happens to be the name of a CityCaucus blogger with the initial letters reversed. It was an unwise choice, certainly, but not something that warrants further action at this time. Bearcat (talk) 19:26, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

It appears in this case the anti-Semitic naming was done, and then in an attempt to soften that position the other ID was added as well. In any case, as you have said it is an unwise choice, and offensive, but perhaps no other action is warranted at this time except for the investigation of the sock/meat puppet aspects of the two names. ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 22:06, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Non-valid citations

I removed the following text, as the cited article had nothing to do with what the text claims: "getting Olympic Village financing issues under control," Please provide a more reliable source that actually states what you are trying to say.

ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 21:20, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I removed the following text, as the citation leads to a political party website and makes claims positive about that party. Please cite a verifiable and reliable source: "The five HEAT shelters provided beds and shelter for over 450 people each night. Both the VPD and Downtown Business Association would later laud the HEAT shelters for their effectiveness in reducing street disorder and aggressive panhandling.^[1]"

ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 21:24, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

The article you have now added as a source for the claim about VPD and Downtown Business Association (http://www.news1130.com/news/local/more.jsp?content=20081216_195352_12912) makes no such claim. Please find a source that actually verifies your claim.

ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 22:56, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I removed the following text, as the citation makes no mention of the split vote claimed in the text. Please find a reliable source that actually verifies the claim: "In early 2009, Robertson revealed that the decision to have Fortress Investments finance the Southeast False Creek Olympic Village project, with the city locked into a high interest rate, split along party lines in 2007, and that Vision and COPE councillors opposed it.^[2] This contradicted the NPA's long-held public stance that the Olympic Village project decisions were unanimous. The City of Vancouver eventually took control of the project financing, buying out Wall Street (U.S.) hedge fund Fortress Investments and saving Vancouver $90 million after negotiating better terms with a consortium of Canadian banks. Fulfilling a key campaign promise, Robertson’s Council held an open public meeting on finances of the Olympic Village shortly after taking office and has released all in-camera reports on Olympic Village on its website."

ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 21:27, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

References

^ ", Globe and Mail on VV site, February 19, 2009.
^ [1], CBC, January 12, 2009.

RFC: negative slant?

I just read the biographical entry about Vancouver's current Mayor, Gregor Robertson. I believe it is imbued with considerable negative bias. For example it repeatedly (4 times) refers to the fact that a senior advisor, Penny Ballem, is "unelected", when this is essentially irrelevant. It contains quotes from people angry at Robertson, several examples of mistakes he has made (several simply about language), but nowhere is there any substantive evidence of success, appropriate leadership, or integrity. As for his personal life, he is said to be a tuba player, have 4 childen, and live in a 3000 sq ft house -- clearly implying that he is an environmental fraud. I think this entry needs a thorough overhaul, by someone who is dispassionate, knowledgeable and balanced in approach. 66.183.224.97 (talk) 01:58, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Comment - There is a WP page for issues surrounding articles about living persons at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard. I'll post a notice there, which may attract some WP:BLP black-belts. See Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Gregor_Robertson_.28politician.29. --Noleander (talk) 00:56, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

PS: this RfC was posted by the IP at the wrong Talk page; I've moved it here. --Noleander (talk) 00:59, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

The BLP Noticeboard entry is now archived at Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard/Archive122#Gregor_Robertson_.28politician.29. It got no comments. I would agree that the article is biased -- the "unelected" bit is particularly obvious. But there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of activity here, and certainly no recent edit wars. Why don't you (the nominator) rewrite the biased parts of the article? – Quadell ^(talk) 23:55, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

"Robertson's Riot"

As far as I know, the only person who referred to the Stanley Cup riot in this way was Suzanne Anton. In fact, the referenced article quotes her employing this term. It is disingenuous to suggest otherwise, and I have edited the article accordingly. fishhead64 (talk) 08:19, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

It appeared in multiple outlets. I've added additional citations. ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 16:19, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

I think your references hardly support the notion that the riot was dubbed "Robertson's Riot." The riot was dubbed the "Stanley Cup Riot." Some minor editorialists apparently picked up on Suzanne Anton's moniker, but the mainstream media consistently referred to it as the Stanley Cup Riot, and when "Robertson's Riot" was used at all, it was generally in reference to the NPA slogan. I really find this lnaguage POV, making it sound as though Vancouverites weere using this as a commonplace descriptor. They weren't. This is why I syopped editing Wikipedia - people with too many axes to grind, and using an online reference encyclopedia as a forum for doing it. The only people who should be editing pages are people with absolutely no investment in the subject matter. fishhead64 (talk) 16:50, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Your latest edits to the article seem to appropriately capture the name which was coined by Anton and picked up by other outlets. I will refrain from responding to your personal attack as it sounds that you have clearly had some very negative experiences on Wikipedia, which is truly unfortunate. In any case, thank you for trying to improve Wikipedia. ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 03:20, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Highway 99

I think it's a bit much to call it the 'primary driving route between Vancouver and Whistler' when really, it's the only driving route. The alternative going through the Okanagan and then through Lilloet and Pemberton can hardly fit the definition of being 'between' Vancouver and Whistler. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.189.85.132 (talk) 18:16, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

negative slant

This article definitely is biased against Robertson, a very popular mayor. You wouldn't even know it by reading the article. Btw, someone should cite the reports in the papers from this year's homeless count showing street homelessness is down 80% (!) since he became Mayor. It was also just rated one of the greenest cities in the world (by the Economist), based in part on his governance. He's a self-made millionaire who rides his bike to work and plays tuba with local rock bands. In this world of plastic interests bs propoganda, what more could you want? The tone of the article is terribly misleading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.98.19.146 (talk) 04:50, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Is the Vancouver Sun a radical newspaper? I don't know? Their bio of him has a slightly negative bent but also some positive things. Greg Robertson 1990 (talk) 22:48, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

a little disjointed, needs rewrite

Maybe a bit of organizing but not taking info out. Greg Robertson 1990 (talk) 22:54, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Move out of a Category

Currently, this page is in the Category: 1965 births, however the wiki page states that Gregor Robertson was born in September 18, 1964. Could someone move it out of that category? CountHacker (talk) 03:21, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

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[GlobeArticle-1] ", Globe and Mail on VV site, February 19, 2009.

[CBC-2] [1], CBC, January 12, 2009.

[1]

[2]