Talk:Guitar/Archive 3

A few suggested enhancements

Guitars most often have 6 strings today, but have both fewer (a tenor guitar has 4) and more (a twelve string guitar has, of course, 12).

Solid body electric guitars were not found to be "more suitable", but rather were found to solve certain problems that the then-existing hollow-bodied electrics had, primarily feedback. Feedback refers to the sympathetic vibration of the guitar's body in response to the (loud) sounds coming from the amplifier, which creates an ever-increasingly loud sound that is usually not musical. Feedback is sometimes considered to be musical. One of the first examples of musical (i.e. deliberate) feedback in popular recorded music was the intro to "I Feel Fine" by The Beatles, and was played by John Lennon. Today electric guitars are commonly found in hollow, semi-hollow and solid body configurations.OldGuitarPlayer (talk) 23:31, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

somebody messed up the article

I was reading the article when I noticed there were some inapropriate things on the page so I refreshed it, then the inapropriate things were gon and there was a chunk missing from the article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.175.76.177 (talk) 21:40, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

I just wanted to add reggae to the list of music types that the guitar has a lead in. (Tarzaninakilt (talk)) —Preceding undated comment added 15:54, 3 March 2010 (UTC). THIS IS ALL A LIE!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.220.100.153 (talk) 07:13, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Under Classical guitars it says: In Colombia, the traditional quartet includes a range of instruments too, from the small bandola (sometimes known as the Deleuze-Guattari, for use when traveling or in confined rooms or spaces)... Deleuze-Guattari are philosophers, not luthiers! But I don't know what it might have said before. Presumably there must be old cached versions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dhyandeva (talk • contribs) 14:50, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

The "Deleuze-Guattari" is obviously a joke and needs to be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.120.130.106 (talk) 17:03, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Action

Action is actually the distance from the string to the fret, not the string to the fretboard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.117.45.111 (talk) 19:34, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Just some notes...

Very good job with a complex subject.

As I read the article I noticed a few things that I just thought I'd throw out for discussion.

First off, as to number of strings, at one time or another guitars have been made with pretty much any number of strings from one to more than a hundred. Rather than listing of only some of the variations (as the article does: 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, etc.) it might be a better idea to just mention this fact, and only cite a few of the contemporary standards (4, 6, 12).

The same thing goes for the number of necks -- the article cites 2, 3, and 4 - neck instruments, but I'm aware of guitars with as many as 7 necks. There are also multi-neck hybrids that combine guitar necks with bass, mandolin, banjo, and other fretted string instrument necks. Again, probably would be worth a mention.

Also didn't seen any mention of the fretless guitars, other than a brief phrase under the Gitarron section.

Just small details, but I thought I'd bring them up, since no one else seems to have done so.

Cheers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.92.174.105 (talk) 22:22, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Accoustic bass

These have steel strings or gut strings and often the same tuning as an electric bass guitar.

Can we have some real solid information about how they are tuned, instead of "often the same as..."? This paragraph occurs before the paragraph on electric basses. What's more, musicians have been tuning accoustic basses for a lot longer than they have been tuning eletric basses, so we ought to use the accoustic instrument as the benchmark. Amandajm (talk) 07:46, 2 February 2010 (UTC) they look very fugaly and stupid... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.155.32.65 (talk) 18:59, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Offset Guitar Bodies

Guitar bodies usually have a waist. When viewed from the front of the guitar, both sides of the waist are narrower than the rest of the body, and typically form a symetrical, hourglass-type of shape. A few acoustic and a greater number of electric guitars have offset waists, particularly since the 1960s, and these are often referred to as "offset guitars".

An offset, or assymetrical, waist means that when a string is placed around the guitar at the narrowest portions of the waist, and it's drawn taught, the string is not perpendicular to the neck of the guitar. Instead, the string is at some degree of angle...perhaps 1 to 15 degrees...to the line of the neck. The offset may be towards the neck, when the narrowest portion of the bass side is closer to the neck and the narrowest portion of the treble side of the guitar is closer to the bridge. Or the offset may be reverse, with the narrowest portion of the bass side of the guitar closer to the bridge and the narrowest portion of the treble side is closer to the neck.

Examples of offset guitars are the Fender Jazzmaster, Fender Jaguar, Fender Mustang, and Samick Fastback FB1.

67.79.53.90 (talk) 21:43, 14 February 2010 (UTC)Doug Pratt

Thanks for reading our insiteful page. Please use this as a project guid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.171.84.16 (talk) 21:00, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Elloise Emma Livvy and Velvet are sexy! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.158.19.254 (talk) 23:45, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Irish musical instrument category?

I understand that maybe the guitar might have a special cultural significance to Ireland, but I really don't see any reason why "Celtic musical instruments" and "Irish musical instruments" should be listed as the ONLY categories on the page. The guitar is popular in many countries; what makes Ireland so special? 174.18.20.132 (talk) 05:24, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

• I entirely agree. In fact, I'd go so far to say that Irish music is one of the few ethnic musics where the guitar has no traditional place. The traditional Irish instruments are fiddle, uilleann pipes and (to a lesser extent, because the tradition died out and has been reconstructed speculatively), harp. The guitar, like the bouzoki and the accordion, has been introduced into Irish traditional music since the 1960s or so, but while a very few virtuoso players have played it convincingly in an Irish traditional context, it's not always welcome at sessions (certainly not by me, even though I am a.) Irish, b.) love Irish traditional music and c.) am a guitar player.) The guitar, as Derek Bailey pointed out, is one of the very few universal instruments in that guitar-like instruments appear in the music of nearly every culture, but there is nothing particularly Irish about the guitar. There isn't even a significant number of great Irish guitar players. Lexo (talk) 00:51, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I may have been hasty in reverting your removal of those categories (Irish and Celtic) but the lack of virtuoso Irish guitarists may or may not be significant. In that context, the guitar is best seen as an accompanist's instrument. I have attended "Irish" sessions where more than one bodhran was not welcome, or if multiple drummers showed up, they were smart enough to lay off so only one was going at a time. Not sure what that says about the bodhran's status as an Irish instrument. Then again, the piano carries no such national category. I am aware of at least one pianist who accompanies an Irish band, when she is not playing the fiddle in it. Open ears here... __ Just plain Bill (talk) 01:37, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Fret alloys

Usual standard frets are NOT made of a nickel alloy: the main alloying element is COPPER, since the standard fret alloy is called "german silver" or "nickel silver", a kind of maillechort. It does contain nickel, but this cannot make it a nickel alloy. Or else stainless steel would not be an iron alloy but a chromium alloy , following your logic! Which is not the case. The correct sentence would be then (in the section "frets" : "Frets are metal strips (usually nickel silver or stainless steel ) "

So fix it? --Spike Wilbury (talk) 15:16, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Fret board chart?

Does Wikipedia have a fret board chart for a standard-tuned treble guitar using sheet music notation although using tab notation might be of interest to somebody else who finds this comment in the future. This page at www.guitar-theory-in-depth.com has excellent examples of the type of charts that I mean, in particular Fretboard Chart 1. Jason Quinn (talk) 00:36, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi Jason, I'm the webmaster of [1]. I ran into this today. I'd love to contribute to this. I'm thinking if it were possible to use that same image, hosted on my server, and have it show here, that would be easiest. I'm also wondering about copyright issues: if, say, I granted permission for it to be used here, would it have to be licensed under the CC licensing scheme, or would I be able to retain copyright as is? In any case, if that is not possible, I'd be more than glad to make a special version of it for use here, though I'd prefer the other option. Cheers Cortes.alex (talk) 13:32, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Classical "Plucking"

In the article it claims that "most classical players pick solely with their fingernails" this however is not true, classical guitarists in fact swipe the strings with the inside tips of their fingers where the flesh supports the nail. Could someone please change this as it is stating false information which could lead to new players who are teaching themselves, to use a technique which is not only incorrect but could cause physical harm to themselves.

cheers 86.155.164.50 (talk) 18:58, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 216.162.220.98, 15 August 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} Under guitar straps they might want to include a part about waist straps which are uncommon however used by some including Steve Albini.

216.162.220.98 (talk) 04:13, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —fetch·comms 20:19, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Tuning section not reading correctly

When I read the section called 'Tuning,' the chart that list the notes on a fretboard of a standard-tuned six-string has a bunch of question marks. I suppose there are flat and sharp symbols in the original that are not being translated correctly by my browser (or OS, or whatever). So I see E, F, F?, G, A?, A, etc. Could someone that knows computers better than I, look into this? It would be great to have an article that could be more universally read. Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.195.246.22 (talk) 07:08, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Did it, using {{music|sharp}} and {{music|flat}}. Is better? __ Just plain Bill (talk) 19:01, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

anyone got any useful facts about the acoustic guitar?

please help its to do with my homework x —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.40.63.9 (talk) 18:31, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

enharmonic equivalents

The table reviewing the strings is somewhat messy and unorganized.

In some instances the accidentals are noted as flat, and sometimes as sharp.

ie -- top string

E - F - F♯ - G - A♭- A - B♭ - B - C - C♯ - D - E♭ - E

In music theory, any accidental can be denoted two ways (# or ♭)

For instance, between "F" and "G," the note can be denoted as F sharp ("F#") or G-Flat ("G♭").

These notes "F#" and "G♭" are considered enharmonic, and are the same frequency,

but the contributor of this section has randomly prescribed only one name for the note at his discretion.

It would make more logical sense to standardize the table to include only one kind of accidental

(i.e. all sharps or flats)

E - F - F♯ - G - G#- A - A# - B - C - C♯ - D - D# - E

or name both enharmonic equivalents

ie -- top string

E - F - F♯/G♭ - G - G#/A♭- A - A#/B♭ - B - C - C♯/D♭ - D - D#/E♭ - E  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vjelmy (talk • contribs) 22:53, 27 September 2010 (UTC) 

Persian etymology

The Persian true word is سه‌تار not سی تار as it mentioned in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.162.214.65 (talk) 20:14, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Further to this: This article lists "tar" as Persian for string. The lute article lists "rud". It feels like one or the other is an error. Tomscho (talk) 19:03, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Tuning

The part on dropped tunings is wrong and misleading, confusing the popular terms "drop-tuning" and tuning all strings N steps lower. Ex: D-d tuning is known as 'D Standard' (tuned at same intervals as E Standard, DGCFAD), the "dropped" version of D standard is 'Drop C' (CGCFAD), and "Drop-D" refers to dropping just the 6th string of EADGBE to make DADGBE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.123.231.44 (talk) 01:53, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Inlays

Why can't I edit this article? Anyway, "Some guitar players have used LEDs in the fretboard to produce a unique lighting effects onstage." seems rather "weasel-wordish" to me. --Schnitzel8989 (talk) 19:24, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Incorrect information on transposition

The article states that the guitar sounds a transposing instrument sounding an octave below written pitch, but if the guitar uses a treble clef with an ottava under it (as shown in the range example) then the guitar is not a transposing instrument, as the transposition is already accounted for in the clef. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Normanrosenblatt (talk • contribs) 12:48, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

The guitar is traditionally written in the treble clef, sounding an octave lower, and thus is a transposing instrument. The clef with the ottava is a relatively recent development, and isn't a different clef. It's still a treble clef, and one which just happens to include an additional notation showing what the transposition happens to be. Similar notation has been employed by various avant garde composers using, for example, a "2" below th clef to show Bb clarinet or Bb trumpet transposition, or a "5" showing English Horn transposition -- but all the clefs used are still treble clefs, and the instruments are still considered transposing instruments.

Sound Hole

I cannot edit this semi-protected article as a new editor, but can someone please change everywhere it says "soundhole" to "sound hole."

Ngv10 (talk) 06:26, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Origin of the current guitar: Spain

According to several studies, current guitar, as we know it, has its origin and evolution in Spain, during the Arab invasion. Not mentioned in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.222.13.47 (talk) 11:59, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

suggested early assessment

In Pepys diary he assessed the guitar as a pssing fad - a "mere bauble" - as I recall. G. Robert Shiplett 18:07, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Biodegradable protein leather picks

These guitar picks made base on protein more precisely skins and leather are eco-sound and eco-friendly. The Ibanez Company est. 1864 in Perú. They are specialized in all leather goods. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CARLOSIBANEZVIGNOLO (talk • contribs) 14:53, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 9 February 2013

Please make the "main image" of the article (i think it's this item: "|image=GuitareClassique5.png") accessible by Facebook, as in Facebook's link to the wiki article on "Film"/"Movies" (at https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Movies/106057162768533) - note how Facebook utilizes the main image from the "Film"/"Movies" wiki article page as a thumbnail image across Facebook, as in "Likes," "Interests," etc. Thank you. 75.72.24.114 (talk) 15:23, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Not done: Wikipedia has no control over what a 3rd party site displays, I suggest you contact Facebook. - Happysailor ^(Talk) 20:17, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

The image you suggest is in the public domain. Anybody can use it for any purpose, including Facebook. There is nothing further for Wikipedia to do here. Binksternet (talk) 20:20, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Removed Scandinavian lut, Old Persian tar

I removed the unsourced section claiming a role for the Scandinavian lut in originating the guitar. Besides the lack of references, I'll suggest that the Vikings (Norse merchants and raiders) were simply playing an instrument they had picked up either from the French or from their own direct contact with the eastern Mediterranean. Some Vikings were very well traveled and served as mercenaries in Byzantium, for instance. — ℜob C. alias ÀLAROB 16:26, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Also zapped the unsourced "it is thought" passage that links Greek kithara to Old Persian tar, "string." Similar sounds prove nothing. For all I know, the Greeks copied their instruments from Persia, but that doesn't mean the Greek name for the instrument came from Persia. If we go with the "sounds-like" standard, we could easily turn up "evidence" that the word guitar ultimately comes from Sanskrit, or Chinese, or Proto-Nilo-Saharan. — ℜob C. alias ÀLAROB 16:43, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Lute Family

Editing for this article appears to be broken; it is not possible to make any corrections.

Assuming that will get fixed someday, the first sentence needs to be changed to, "The guitar is a string instrument of the lute family..."

There is no such thng as "the chordophone family. Chordophone is a more general division of instrument classification which simply means anything which uses tensioned lines (strings, wires, etc.) to produce sound. Chordophones include the Lute Family, the Harp Family, and the Zither Family, among others.

It would, however, be correct to describe the guitar as "a chordophone of the lute family", if you really want to keep "chordophone" in there. 74.95.43.249 (talk) 21:28, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

This article is protected from editing by anonymous editors. To edit it yourself, all you have to do is create a Wikipedioa account and log in. — ℜob C. alias ÀLAROB 21:44, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

The Wikipedia article about Wikipedia states "Anyone with Internet access can write and make changes to Wikipedia articles..."

Why is this article blocked to anonymous editors?

And even so, how about someone non-anonymous, presumably like yourself, simply making the necessary corrections?

It's semi-protected because it's a highly visible article that attracts non-stop vandalism and nonconstructive edits. Create an account and have at it. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 22:58, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Holy Chordophones, Batman!

I'm actually scared to look back to see how long the lead statement of this article had been:
"The guitar is a type of chordophone, traditionally constructed from wood and strung..."

If someone handed me an academic textbook about guitars and its very first statement was that one, I would throw that book away. Your mileage may vary, and obviously it does because someone out there in WikiLand thought that this was a good enough idea to publish to the world. I have fended the 'chordophone' term off until the third sentence. Let's practice communicating in plain English before hitting anyone over the head with obscure terminology!--Vybr8 (talk) 19:07, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Potentially Biased...

"It is typically played by strumming or plucking the strings with the right hand while fretting the strings with the left hand" is true enough for right-handed people, but might be better phrased along the lines of "It is typically played by strumming or plucking the strings with the dominant hand while fretting the strings with the non-dominant hand". Picker O'nits (talk) 17:51, 7 March 2014 (UTC)Picker O'nits

That's why it says "typically". --Roly (talk) 18:27, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 April 2014

The "International Guitar Research Archive" external link is outdated.

So http://library.csun.edu/igra/ should be changed to http://library.csun.edu/SCA/IGRA 151.185.60.250 (talk) 16:26, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Done, thanks! LittleMountain5 16:35, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 November 2014

41.143.163.228 (talk) 20:22, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

no request Cannolis (talk) 23:34, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Dubious

Article lead currently [2] reads in part Early amplified guitars employed a hollow body, but a solid body was eventually found more suitable, as it was less prone to feedback. This is oversimplified to the point of being blatant POV, or arguably complete rubbish. Semi-acoustic guitars continue to sell well and are perfectly well suited for some purposes, and are even preferred by some artists in high gain contexts where feedback is an issue. Andrewa (talk) 18:03, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Material Aspects

Guitar is a very common musical instrument loved by most people across the world. It has become such an integral part of our lives that many see it in their dreams. This stringed instrument has become a symbol of masculinity and sexual fantasies. Seeing a guitar in your dreams indicates that you have strength in real life. It is a sign of fertility and carnal desires and you can expect joyous gatherings of friends and relatives if you continue to see guitar in your dreams.

Psychological/emotional perspectives

Guitar is associated with strong emotions and desires. If you see yourself playing a guitar or just watching it in your dreams, it may be related to some strong underlying desires (even sexual). This stringed instrument has always been a symbol of youth and rebellion and to see it in dreams indicates that you have intense feelings and desires. Electric guitar is an indication of the strength of your feelings and emotions. A guitar in your dreams means that you are an individual who has the courage to express his feelings to others. If the guitar you see is broken or unstrung, it means that you have faced disappointment in love in real life. Whether you see it or play it in your dreams, a guitar means that you are expecting occupations that you like. If it is the pick of the guitar that you see in your dreams, it signifies the fact that you need to turn your attention to the real passion in your life. Alternatively, it means that you need to express your feelings to others.

Dreaming of a stringed instrument is indicative of the need of rest, harmony, and relaxation in life. Guitar represents creativity and romance in real life. If you see yourself playing guitar, it means that your sexual desires and fantasies need gratification. But if you just hear the sound of a guitar in your dreams, it means that you can expect pleasing company of your dear ones in the near future.

Original Meaning

Our passions and desires are expressed if you see a guitar in your dreams. It is one stringed instrument that represents youth and creativity though it is also associated with sexual fantasies and carnal desires. If you see yourself playing a guitar in your dream, it means that you can expect a gathering of your dear ones shortly in real life. Seeing unstrung or broken guitar can be unlucky for you as it signifies loss of loved one or disappointment in love — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.173.26.219 (talk) 07:50, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Material Aspects

Guitar is a very common musical instrument loved by most people across the world. It has become such an integral part of our lives that many see it in their dreams. This stringed instrument has become a symbol of masculinity and sexual fantasies. Seeing a guitar in your dreams indicates that you have strength in real life. It is a sign of fertility and carnal desires and you can expect joyous gatherings of friends and relatives if you continue to see guitar in your dreams.

Psychological/emotional perspectives

Guitar is associated with strong emotions and desires. If you see yourself playing a guitar or just watching it in your dreams, it may be related to some strong underlying desires (even sexual). This stringed instrument has always been a symbol of youth and rebellion and to see it in dreams indicates that you have intense feelings and desires. Electric guitar is an indication of the strength of your feelings and emotions. A guitar in your dreams means that you are an individual who has the courage to express his feelings to others. If the guitar you see is broken or unstrung, it means that you have faced disappointment in love in real life. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.173.26.219 (talk) 07:55, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 February 2015

YOLO — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.234.104.5 (talk) 18:44, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Not done: Makes no sense. Eman235/talk 03:35, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Untitled

I thank for all what is said. However, I like to add few words not because I am Persian and want to claim anything for Persia. It is just a fact that is worth to be said here: The word TAR is the Persian word for string, a word from over 2500 years. You can search the word TAR in Wikipedia as well and you see also paintings of a Persian woman playing TAR. The TAR instruments like Sitar (in Persian Si or se is 3 and this mean 3 strings) have deep routes in the thousands of years of music and paintings.

Now I wonder what is the Gui that is added to Tar coming from. It would be interesting to find out.

Let us dream. A dream that can come true, one day I hope. It should be a global village. One country, one citizenship and no more passports and borders. We all are the citizen of mother earth. Everywhere living in peace and prosperous. Reza April 3/2015 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 32.209.223.245 (talk) 03:00, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

In the article, it says, "The modern word guitar, and its antecedents, has been applied to a wide variety of chordophones since classical times and as such causes confusion. The English word guitar, the German Gitarre, and the French guitare were adopted from the Spanish guitarra, which comes from the Andalusian Arabic قيثارة qitara itself derived from the Latin cithara, which in turn came from the Ancient Greek κιθάρα kithara".

On this page, there is some discussion: here, here. Especially read the second "here". Eman235/talk 19:38, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 June 2015

Add a part after "See below on section "Neck" for the importance of the length of the fretboard in connection to other dimensions of the guitar." in Fretboard section

The fingerboard play an essential role in the treble tone for the acoustic guitars. The quality of vibration of the fingerboard is the principal characteristic for generating the best treble tone. For that reason, the ebony is the better wood but, because of his surexploitation, ebony became rare and extremely expensive. The guitar manufacturers have adopted the rosewood for replaced the ebony.

At this era, the neck are build in two pieces. The neck, made in mahogany and the fingerboard made in rosewood. The ebony was reserved for the expensive guitar. This is again the case for the acoustic guitars today. But for the electric guitar, it's not the same case.

Many years later, the guitar manufacturer Fender have developed a fabrication method who was made one piece neck for her electric guitars. The mapple was the wood used for this because the quality of vibration is not necessary. Due that sound is generated by the pickups. For that reason, we can found two kinds of neck on the market, one piece neck in mapple and 2 pieces neck, generally mahogany or mapple for the neck and rosewood for the fingerboard. But, some guitar manufacturers have adopted the mapple for the neck on acoustic guitar.

Done (with minor corrections). --Roly (talk) 12:33, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Note: This does not have any sources. While I believe it to be true, could you provide them? Eman235/talk 18:27, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

No Edits Allowed??

I thought anyone could edit any Wiki article? Why is editing turned off on this one? Isn't that antithetical to the whole /raison d'etre/ of Wiki?

There are a lot of details in this article that need cleaning up:

One of the opening statements is wrong, for starters:

"There are three main types of modern acoustic guitar: the classical guitar (nylon-string guitar), the steel-string acoustic guitar, and the archtop guitar."

There are several problems with this.

1) It begs a definition of "type"

2) If we are typing by gross structure, then there are really just /two/ distinctive common types: flattop and arch top. "Classical" and "steel string" are both flattops.

3) If we are typing by function and/or stringing, then "archtop" is /not/ a different type from "steel string," as both use steel strings, and are used to play in similar musical settings. In this case the types would more properly be "steel string," "classical," and "flamenco," -- as being respectively strung with steel (or bronze & steel); nylon (or other synthetic composite); and gut (or sometimes nylon). In any case, flamenco guitars are very different from either classical or steel string guitars.

4) A better use for "type" is to distinguish electric instruments from acoustic instruments, with "electroacoustic" being a hybrid of the two. Then each of those types has distinct sub-types: "solid body," "semi-hollow body", and "hollow body" for electric; "steel string," "nylon string", and "flamenco" for acoustic. another level of sub categories could cover flattop and archtop under "steel string".

5) Acoustic archtops aren't exactly "modern". They haven been made in any appreciable quantities since the 1950s, and new ones are usually made by special order, only.

Also, this section says of electric guitars: "Early amplified guitars employed a hollow body, but a solid body was found more suitable."

This is neither universal nor accurate. The earlist amplified instruments were hollow because they were -acoustical- instruments to which amplification was applied. They didn't "employ" a hollow body, the guitar already had a hollow body and they "employed" some form of amplification.

As to a solid body being "more suitable," that's a statement of opinion, not fact. Thousands of modern players find hollow-body electrics more suitable for the kinds of music they chose to play. Other performers find solid body instruments more suitable for their music, and still others find semi-hollow body to suit them better.

The section on "classical guitars" includes considerable digression on South American variants (requinto, guitarron, etc.) to which the introductory comments in the section do not apply. (Mariachi guitarists more frequently play standing up than seated, for example.) This material should really be in a separate section.

On "extended range classical guitars", the phrase "usually up to 13" is misleading. 13 string guitars are far from "usual," or even common. This most common extended range classical guitars have 10 strings, followed by those with 8 strings. Past that, you can have pretty much any number of strings you care to order and pay for.

In the section on flamenco guitar, the flamenco guitar is /not/ just a classical guitar "of lighter construction." It is a completely different type. The materials from which it is made are different. The size and scale are different. The internal bracing is different. On a traditional flamenco guitar wooden friction peg tuners are used instead of metal machine tuners. (A strict traditionalist would allow no non-wooden parts, with the possible exception of the frets.) Until relatively recently they were still likely as not to have gut strings, rather than any synthetic material. The setup and action are different, and flamenco guitars are very frequently played with a friction-capo in place (often on the 2nd fret) -- it is extremely rare to see a "classical" guitarist use a capo, ever, unless he's pretending to be a lutenist.

Really, flamenco guitar is a different -type- of guitar. Anyone who has ever held one in their hands recognizes this at once.

Archtops: The article says: "F-hole archtop guitars were immediately adopted upon their release by both jazz and country musicians and have remained particularly popular in jazz music, usually with flatwound strings."

"Usually" flatwound strings? Really? I play jazz guitar myself, I know dozens of jazz guitarists, and I've probably seen at least a hundred or more in concert, and the only one I ever saw using flatwounds was Herb Ellis.

Tenor guitars: the article says "it sits in pitch between the alto and the bass." This implies that the standard guitar is an alto instrument; it is not. It is, in fact classified as a tenor instrument. The "alto guitar" is a specialty instrument, invented in the 1960s, and is really an extended range classical guitar, with from 11 to 14 strings. See, for example,

http://altoguitar.com/

The /tenor guitar/ takes its name from the /tenor banjo/ which it was designed to replace.

Also this section mentions the "Niibori prime guitar" without explanation or previous reference. In fact, the standard tenor guitar predates Dr. Niibori's classification system and guitar ensemble by several decades. Basically, "Niibori" doesn't really belong here, but if it -is- going to be here, you need to explain what it is.

Harp guitar: There seems to be a problem with the meaning of the word "usually" throughout this entire article. Here again, in the harp guitar section we are told "Harp Guitars are difficult to classify as there are many variations within this type of guitar."

Then we are told how they are "usually" set up.

If something is rare, unusual, unique, widely varried, or difficult to classify, then by definition there is very little "typical" or "usual" about it. Some rethinking of wording is definitely in order here.

Guitar battente: Having a separate section for this (and for guitarron) seems odd, unless you are also going to have separate sections for the many other guitar variations such as requinto, cuatro, charango, tres, tiple, li'liu, pipa, ukulele, etc., etc. None of these (well, except the uke) are common enough in western music to warrant special mention in an article dealing with the /standard western guitar/.

Probably, it would be cleaner to gather the battente and all the other variants together into a single section, with links to appropriate articles about the various instruments.

Electric guitars: where multineck instruments are mentioned, check the Wiki article on "Multineck guitars". Guitars have been made with up to 12 necks.

Also, I didn't find any mention of multineck /acoustic/ guitars, which not only exist, but can be traced back to the Renaissance.

Construction and components:

Headstock: "It is fitted with machine heads..." Well, except for traditional flamenco guitars and many Baroque guitars, which are fitted with friction pegs.

Fretboard: "It is flat on classical guitars and slightly curved crosswise on acoustic and electric guitars."

Not universally true. I have two old flattop Gretsch acoustics, 6- and 12-string, steel strings on both, which have dead flat fingerboards. I have also played a Pimental classical instrument with a slightly rounded fingerboard.

It would be more accurate to say "the fingerboard may be flat, or slightly convexly arched."

Frets: "... although guitars have been made with as many as 27 frets."

Guitars in standard temperment (12-tone equal temperment) have been made with as many as 36-frets (Peter Lang played a 12-string with 36-frets at one point). When you get into just intonation and more exotic temperments, guitars have been made with more than 100 frets.

Strings: As regards string numbers, they can range anywhere from one to as many as you want. The tres cubano may have only three strings; the guitarron chileno has 25; the Pikasso guitar has 42; and so on.

Perhaps someone with editing privilages could revisit these sections and rewrite it with the above information in mind. Thanks.

Delete and Start Over?

I agree with virtually every change proposed here, but none of them appear to have been made, and the article still appears to be locked.

The errors in this article are so extensive, I submit that -- if it is going to remain locked -- it would be better to delete the article entirely, and start over anew.

74.95.43.249 (talk) 22:43, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Acoustic Bass Guitar section should be changed or removed

The section on acoustic bass guitars states: "Acoustic bass guitars, also known as an upright bass, have flatwound steel strings or gut strings and often the same tuning as an electric bass guitar." There are several issues with this statement that need to be addressed. First, an upright bass is a member of the violin family, and is in no way the same as an acoustic bass guitar. The two are entirely different instruments, so the second clause should be removed. Second, not all acoustic bass guitars have flatwound steel or gut strings. In fact, most acoustic bass guitars ship from the manufacturer with roundwound steel strings installed, and gut strings are extremely rare. Hence, this third clause is true for upright basses, but not acoustic bass guitars. Thus, it should be removed. These changes would leave the following: "Acoustic bass guitars often have the same tuning as an electric bass guitar." Since the acoustic bass guitar was developed after the electric bass guitar, it seems obvious that they would have the same tuning. Since it seems unnecessary to have a whole section for a single obvious sentence, I propose that this section should be removed.

It seems odd to me that there would be a section on acoustic bass guitars in this article anyway, considering there is no section on electric bass guitars. If consensus opposes removing the acoustic bass guitar section, then I propose we should move it below the section on electric guitars, re-title it "Bass Guitar", and start off with the development of the electric bass guitar as a hybrid between an electric guitar and an upright bass. After that, we can move on to the subsequent development of the acoustic bass guitar as an analog to the acoustic guitar. This would be significantly better than the current section, which is misleading at best and outright false at worst. I would happily fix this myself, but I don't even have a user account, let alone editing priveleges on this article. ;-) Thanks! 64.15.81.27 (talk) 20:27, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Why don't you get an account? Rothorpe (talk) 20:47, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

I had one, years ago, but I forgot the name and password... Most of the time my edits are simple grammatical fixes or slight rewordings, so I don't really feel it's worth the extra effort to sign in for such trivial actions, so I just haven't bothered to revive my account. I still sign all my talk page comments out of habit, but I don't know how useful that is, what with them being spread over many IP's. Plus, I'm super lazy! So what about the article? I still think the Acoustic Bass Guitar section is either superfluous or in desperate need of a rewrite... 64.15.81.27 (talk) 18:06, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

The current version is much better! Thanks for the edit, Spike! 64.15.81.27 (talk) 02:57, 27 May 2014 (UTC)