Talk:Håkan the Red

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Untitled[edit]

WTF is "1070-1079"? The article says he ruled for thirteen years, so it's neither his life nor his reign.

Yes the dates are unreliable all over the line of Swedish kings. It is one of my future projects to double check the dates.--Wiglaf 21:59, 2 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestions for improvement of the article[edit]

  • Westrogothic law:
    • There appear to be two versions of this document (Äldre Västgötalagen and the Yngre Västgötalagen): is the regnal list tied to any of these two versions, or is the regnal list exactly the same in both versions?
    • Is there an English translation published of this document/these documents? If so, where?
    • Could the (regnal list of the) Westogothic law be used as a direct source, instead of going around via the familjebok/encyklopedin?
  • List of Swedish monarchs#References lists four English-language recent sources on Swedish kings: could someone check which one(s) of these give(s) detailed information on the regnal succession sequence around Haakon? If such source gives such detailed information, couldn't it replace (part of) the sources in Swedish? Or are there still differences with encyklopedin/familjebok so that all these sources need to be mentioned to give a NPOV version of the possible succession sequences? Note that the succession box at the bottom of the article should only be used to reflect the consensus of historians on the subject. If the historians have no consensus, then the succession box should either be removed, either adapted so that it reflects the main likely possibilities.
  • Are there others sources with a description of U 11 apart from http://www.canit.se/~griffon/diverse/runes/stenar/u11.htm ? - I mean: how likely is it that the Hakon mentioned on that stone is the "red" Haakon?
  • "Red" as colour of hair: is that so? Source? Or is that just a best guess of some Wikipedian (in which case this contention should be removed from the article, per WP:NOR)?
  • Could someone write the article (or make an appropriate redirect) for Svithjod, used in one of the Saga translations?
  • Similarly: Levene (quoted from Westrogothic law)?

--Francis Schonken 10:56, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Further: replace Encyclopædia Britannica text with something more correct:
"At the end of the Viking Age [approximately 1050], Sweden remained a loose federation of provinces. The old family of kings died out in 1060; after the death of the last of these kings' son-in-law, Stenkil, in 1066, a civil war broke out. Around 1080 Stenkil's sons, Ingi and Halsten, ruled, [...]."
Sweden was no such a federation of provinces, it was more like a formalized loose cooperative kingdom with the Svear as rulers and warriors and, the others as tributaries.
  • A king was originally a warlord, the sentence "border case between king and warlord" doesn't make sense.

Said: Rursus 13:54, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why Norwegian name?[edit]

What's the logic behind writing the name in Norwegian? After all he was a Swedish king so why not Håkan the red? Narking (talk) 21:04, 18 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Move the article to Håkan the Red[edit]

I will move the article to Håkan the Red if no-one is against it and can come up with a logical reason for not moving it. I don't see a reason for having his name in Norwegian. We don't have Olav for Swedish kings so why have Haakon? Narking (talk) 19:51, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of relevant info[edit]

This cross-reference was removed with no other action taken to keep this important info:

  • Sources indicate that Blot-Sweyn may have been another name for this person rather than an individual king.

I see no weighty reason to remove relevant information without adding it somewhere else. Restoring. SergeWoodzing (talk) 12:23, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is not what hatnotes are for. Removed again. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 19:28, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Response to third opinion request:
Hatnotes are indeed not to make controversial claims. I agree that the hatnote should stay removed. I do think the claim should be done in the text, in a NPOV way, with RS references.—OpenFuture (talk) 20:30, 17 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Exonym of Hacon[edit]

It is my firm belief that established personal exonyms are not bound to certain persons but to the language at hand in general. In other words, it is always appropriate and useful to inform readers of English what established English versions of foreign personal names are. If king Karl I of Sweden is or has been totally unknown to English literature written by non-Swedes, it was/is certainly not incorrect to call him Charles anyway - applying the established English exonym i principle, not in person. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 18:45, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If no one calls him "Hacon", it's not an exonym. An exonym is a name for a specific place, person or ethnic group, not a general translation of a name. "Hacon" is the English cognate of the name, nothing more, and if no one calls him by that name form, its inclusion is confusing and misleading. If no one knows of him at all, it is not our place to invent the name he "should" have.
Andejons (talk) 08:50, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Response to third opinion request:
Sources are king. Does a solid source refer to this person as Hacon? If yes, we could mention "Hacon" in the text. If no, we shouldn't. SergeWoodzing, has your "firm belief" influenced any other articles? If so, I would like to check them, and if necessary bring them back in line with WP:V. bobrayner (talk) 13:22, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! Not that I can put my finger on now. but I'll do some checking myself and correct anything I might run across. I can say that there is no major problem with me on this, as far as I'm aware and thus could admit to. If you would like every exonymic personal name form (besides my edits) removed throughout English WP due to a lack of specific sources, we have quite a chore on our hands. I'll do what I can to help, of course. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 13:36, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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