Talk:Hajduk Veljko/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Veljko an ethnic Bulgarian?

Ok, what is the basis for this claim? Was there a Turkish census that established this fact? When did he declare himself Bulgarian? There is a biography of him by Vuk Karadžić who knew him personally (the two were good friends - the "friend" mentioned in the text is Vuk), but it never mentions neither that he was a Bulgarian nor that his name was actually Velko Petrov. A substantial number of his troops were described as ethnic Vlachs in that biography so I don`t think that Vuk was playing an "ethnic minorities assimilator" when writting his bio. Btw - Serbo-Bulgarian strifes are a later product - back then the two peoples regarded themselves as brothers. I cannot take the two web links seriously - actually they both point to the same page. It is an ultra-nationalist Bulgarian text which claims - if I understood it correctly - that the whole eastern Serbia was in fact a Bulgarian land, inhabited by Bulgarians including Niš and Pirot! The claim that he was a Bulgarian military leader presented in the text is an utter nonsence since he waged war under the banner of the Serbian Uprisers - he obtained both the flag and his first title of Bulyu-basha (roughly lieutenant) in 1807 from the Serbian Uprisers` High Council in Belgrade and the title of Vojvoda from Karađorđe in 1809. The only information in the text that supports the claim that he was a Bulgarian is the exsistence of a Bulgarian folk song that claims that his mother was Bulgarian. Even if it were true that doesnt mean that his real surname is Petrov since the surname is inherited from the father, whose nationality was not revealed! I would like a quote from that book listed as a source. Judging from its title the book doesn`t cover the end of 18th and the 19th century during which Veljko lived, so how can it be used as a source? -- Veljko Stevanovich 29. Dec. 2006. 21:55 UTC+1

Text removed pending verification

Hajdut Veljko was an ethnic Bulgarian by the name of Velko Petrov (Bulgarian: Велко Петров).[1][2][3]

Inline citations

  1. ^ Castellan, Georges (1999). History of the Balkans XIV-XV Century (in Bulgarian). Plovdiv: Hermes. pp. p. 273. ISBN 954-459-901-0. {{cite book}}: |pages= has extra text (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  2. ^ Valchev, Vasil (14 January 1998). "Haydut Velko was born by a Bulgarian mother..." (in Bulgarian). Makedoniya Newspaper. Retrieved 2006-09-27. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  3. ^ Sapundzhiev, Panko. "222th anniversary of the birth of Velko voyvoda" (in Bulgarian). Balgarska Armiya Newspaper. Retrieved 2006-09-27.

I've removed the above text from the article because the claim is very controversial, proabably wrong, and only one source is verifiable - a Bulgarian nationalist source, if the previous comment is anything to go by.--Еstavisti 04:05, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Controversy

Please note that the article below does not represent a truthful account of the historical events. Haidut Velko and the people who lived in Timoshko (now part of Serbia) in the early 19th century are pictured ethnically as a Serb, while in fact all of their international and Serbian contemporaries considered them Bulgarian. There is voluminous literature about these people and they were considered Bulgarian by all Western European and Russian travelers and cartographers that explored the region at the time. On the other side, the author of the article below is using only contemporary Serbian sources which were compiled to further a political agenda. The subject has been studied in detail from French, German, English, and Russian historians and all sources are unanimous that Haidut Velko was a Bulgarian and the people he led were Bulgarians from the northwestern corner of the nation. They helped the First Serbian Uprising aiming to reach their own independence not to become part of Serbia. Such behavior is typical for all Balkan peoples during their struggle for independence. Also, Timoshko was not part of the Serbian state until 1833 and the Serbianization of the Bulgarian people there started shortly thereafter, which explains the fact that today most people who live in Timoshko consider themselves Serbian, however, this does not make Velko and his contemporaries Serbs at all.

Moved from the article by -- Bojan  Talk  11:31, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Haidut Velko Bulgarian identity

There is a fact that in bulgarian and some others historiography - scientists, researchers and authors consider and identify him as bulgarian:

  • Georges Castellan, History of the Balkans XIV-XV Century, p. 273 [1],
  • Haydut Velko, by Vasil Valchev[2],
  • Gavril Zanetov, Bolgari na Morava [3]
  • Panko Sapundzhiev, 222th anniversary of the birth of Velko voyvoda[4]
  • Hristo Matov, Haydut Velko[5]
  • Plamen Pavlov, Balgari uchastnitsi v osvobozhdenieto na Sarbiya i Gartsiya[6]

etc. 95.87.215.48 (talk) 13:22, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

WP:FRINGE, WP:NPOV. He did not have a Bulgarian identity.--Zoupan 13:09, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

You review only serbian poin of view, that is completely one-sided and unacceptable for any Wikipedia article. I thing that definitively there are two point of view - bulgarian and serbian, rools of viki was clear - this mus be shown in the article!95.87.215.48 (talk) 13:22, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Please refrain from your edits which are fringe and POV, and you are clearly lacking knowledge of English. I will only warn you once more. Changing "Veljko" to "Velko" and inserting "Bulgarian" in the intro is just too much.--Zoupan 13:51, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
Without exceptional sources for this exceptional claim, per WP:EXCEPTIONAL about Veljko being Bulgarian this assertion should be removed as fringe.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 20:26, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Castellan, Georges (1999). History of the Balkans XIV-XV Century (in Bulgarian). Plovdiv: Hermes. pp. p. 273. ISBN 954-459-901-0. {{cite book}}: |pages= has extra text (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  2. ^ Valchev, Vasil (14 January 1998). "Haydut Velko was born by a Bulgarian mother..." (in Bulgarian). Makedoniya Newspaper. Retrieved 2006-09-27. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  3. ^ Г. Занетов, Българи на Морава, С 1914, pg 25, 42, 46, 50-56, 58, 60-63
  4. ^ Sapundzhiev, Panko. "222th anniversary of the birth of Velko voyvoda" (in Bulgarian). Balgarska Armiya Newspaper. Retrieved 2006-09-27.
  5. ^ Христо Мотов, Хайдут Велко, София 1985г.
  6. ^ [1]

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