Talk:Hajra

Restored earlier version

In May of 2009 this article was nominated for deletion discussion. That discussion closed as keep, since the participants agreed that it was possible to find sources discussing the Hajra Jatts of Rajasthan. From 16 May to 10 November 2009 the article described the Hajra clan.

On 10 November 2009 User:Someonesopinion removed all content discussing the clan and replaced it with an etymology of the name Haajra. I came upon the article in that state on 27 April 2010 and transwikied it to Wiktionary. It seems, however, that there was no consensus to remove the content on the Hajra Jatt clan. I am therefore restoring the article to its pre-November 2009 version. Cnilep (talk) 21:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Controversy over page content

As I described above, I recently returned the content of this page to its 2009 content, which was discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hajra and kept. Since that time, two users have attempted to return the page to an etymology of the name Hajra, content originally added in November 2009.

I have no strong preference for which version of the page should be presented, but will make the following warnings.

1. Repeated reversion to a controversial form of the page is considered edit warring and generally will not be tolerated. Although no editor has technically violated the three revert rule, all editors involved in the 4 May reverts should discuss the page here and attempt to come to consensus before editing the page again.
2. A page consisting only of a definition and etymology may be considered dictionary content, and Wikipedia is not a dictionary. Discussion of the name Hajra or Hagar should be encyclopedic.
3. The discussion of the Hajra clan contained on this page does not cite any reliable sources and may contain original research. As such, the page requires editing to bring it to an acceptable level.

I hope that the editors involved in the edit warring of 4 May will take this opportunity to discuss the concept here, and then make edits to the page reflecting that consensus. Cnilep (talk) 14:55, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

• Considering this wiping has happened before - including word-for-word the same content - the edits are nominally vandalism, especially considering the user involved appears to have bias towards the name as given name. I'm not saying it's not done in good faith - but the reblanking after both versions have been included strikes me as less good faith. Sure, it's unsourced (and cursory searching for Jatt/Jat Hajra is less clear to me than it was in the AFD) but it's also marked as unsourced and so doesn't warrant deleting until a thorough effort has been made. Since the two uses of the name as different, I suggest having two section headings: Given Name & Surname. I'm not sure that "Surname" is technically correct but hopefully the clarification is a step in the right direction.

I'm happy to make this change (and do some research at the weekend) if it seems reasonable. --Firien ^{need help?} 09:02, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

• • Also to point 3 from Cnilep's list, note that neither version of the article provides sources, and both may be OR. Babynames notes it as a variant but does not list the 'original' name nor provides the original meaning. I was considering swapping the order of the two sections as they currently stand to mollify the active editor if this would help, but the boilerplates are applicable to both sections and would remain at the top of the page. --Firien ^{need help?} 09:07, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Rewriting of Hajra

I have discussed with User:Hajraisabeautifulname and will be rewriting the article with sources for both sections. User:Hajraisabeautifulname will provide me with text and references, which I will wikify along with my own changes to the Jatt-clan information (which appears to be OR (forum page), posted on the same day as this article was created). Sources I have found so far: JattWorld.com (may need verification as a trustable source), some articles at google books (though 'hajara jat' appears to be a geological feature), especially [1] (though the content appears to be unavailable) and [2] (text highlighted in the search page is unfortunately not listed in the book contents). I'll update the article when I have reasonable text for both sections. --Firien ^{need help?} 07:51, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

I have kindly read all the above and below and forgive me as I was not aware of the process involved with making edits as I sincerly apologise for any inconvienience! though one thing is clear, I am clearly not in agreement with the current desciption of HAJRA. I have seen many books that demonstrate the history and meaning of Hajra relating to a journey seeking, a migration, and the story of Hajar. Yes things do mean diffrent things in different places. A famous book that clearly refers to Hajra is DUNE by Frank Herbet 1965. I am a strong believer in preserving history, this reference is easy to locate but forgive me because I dont have the know how to demonstrate this to you. I would strongly also agree in considering a swap around of first name and sir names and have been reading many articles online on women from former Yougaslavia with the name Hajra, and famous women in Pakistan and eastern countries also many places that relate to a migration or a journey in spain and the middle east. I feel that this puts a bit of a miss justice to a beautiful name and meaning that is being lost in translation, It would be greatly appriciated if this was changed as there is substancial evidence that Hajra as a first name is much more evident in meaning and history than the sirname jatt history above, this is not to say that it is not significant as a sirname it is still important but I spoke to someone with the Sirname Hajra and they said it meant a Journey to be, which makes me question the information above as creditable? and isn't this website about documenting creditable information! thankyou for your understanding firen and cipen, I look foward to hearing from you! feel free to make changes to this page and I won't change anything without a discussion, thanks, --Someonesopinion (talk) 13:55, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Reworked

I've reworked the two main sections with references where I could find them. I haven't been able to find anything about the Khatri so have stubbed that section for now, I might come back later if I have some time again :) hope that the current content and layout is satisfactory. --Firien ^{need help?} 20:37, 8 August 2010 (UTC)