Talk:Health and environmental effects of battery electric cars

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Electric cars are not environmentally efficient.[edit]

Everyone talks about how electric cars are great for the environment, but in reality they are probably worse. They create more pollution in manufacturing, due to the metals needed for the battery, the electricity they run on comes from, for the most part, coal, natural gas and nuclear power (wind power is inefficient, hydroelectric dams are expensive, solar power is both), and when being scrapped, the batteries must be disposed of, and that creates a lot of pollution. Not that CO2 output matters, because it is necessary for life on earth and has played a minor cause in global warming (most of it is natural, and climate predictions are unreliable). I will get sources soon.2601:245:C101:6BCC:0:0:0:C1F2 (talk) 16:56, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This article answers your concerns. EVs are NOT worse than ICEs, you can find the correct and comprehensive answer properly supported by reliable sources cited in the article, including those emissions of manufacturing. Before engaging in an endless controversy, please be aware that you have to provide reliable sources as defined by Wikipedia, not original research, and please, no fringe source with clear bias against the scientific consensus about climate change. The minority view about climate change is fully discussed in the global warming controversy and climate change denial articles. This is no place to bring that discussion. Cheers.--Mariordo (talk) 00:41, 12 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Actually the jury is still out on whether in most jurisdictions EVs have much effect either way on CO2 emissions. The country with the most BEVs has a fairly carbon intensive grid. Not that CO2 really matters very much.Greglocock (talk) 21:42, 12 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not denying climate change, I'm just saying it's exaggerated, mostly natural, and climate change predictions are unreliable.2601:245:C101:6BCC:D855:D5F2:3EDB:6966 (talk) 01:12, 3 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

In evaluating overall efficiency of electric vehicles, shouldn't the article discuss, at least briefly, (1) the efficiency of the sources of electrical energy (coal/gas/nuclear etc.) and (2) the efficiency of transmitting that energy/energy loss? It seems that a comparison of (1) and (2) against producing that energy by the burning of gas in a gas vehicle would be necessary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.162.196.82 (talk) 23:46, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is the "advantages and disadvantages" section useful[edit]

The title does not say advantages and disadvantages compared to what. I could compare electric cars to many transport options, e.g. electric bikes cannot be autonomous as far as I know, but it would get complicated. Should the heading be removed? Chidgk1 (talk) 06:33, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Needs a picture of tyre particulates I think[edit]

But I cannot find one. What do you think? Chidgk1 (talk) 18:29, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ashleyking33 Lsciullo Dakotajohara MdsQvwDyh35o Jayasurs I don't suppose you have a tyre particulate capture device at your uni you could photograph? Chidgk1 (talk) 06:36, 30 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What is the scope of this article?[edit]

Mariordo says "This article is about comparing EVs with ICEs" (by "EV" I presume you mean fully electric cars)

1) Do you agree? Or should other things be in scope such as pollution from all types of car, comparing with electric bikes, public transport, etc etc?

2) If you agree then should the article be renamed? For example "Environmental impact of electric cars compared to fossil fuelled cars"

Chidgk1 (talk) 17:19, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ashleyking33 Lsciullo Dakotajohara MdsQvwDyh35o Jayasurs Hello engineering students. Hope you are enjoying editing Wikipedia. What do you think about this? Chidgk1 (talk) 06:17, 30 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I would say the article should be named "Environmental footprint of electric cars." This would allow the article to cover the environmental impact of all stages in an EV's lifecycle - from materials sourcing, production, daily use (including comparisons to ICE vehicles / other modes of transport), and end-of-life impacts on the environment. I wouldn't say the main focus of the article should be "compared to fossil fuelled cars", it should focus on presenting facts about the environmental footprint of EVs and associated processes themselves. The comparison with ICE and other modes of transport can fall in naturally.
I also don't think we necessarily need to restrict the article to fully electric cars. However, since the environmental impact of ICE vehicles is probably better fit for a separate article, perhaps any sections dealing with hybrids can be focused on comparing their performance/efficiency to ICEs rather than re-iterate the environmental impact of the ICE part of the hybrids. Jayasurs (talk) 19:18, 30 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I like footprint as a title, it is far less blah than aspects. Greglocock (talk) 03:32, 31 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It is a bit strange that this article has been written whereas the more general article Environmental effects of cars linked from Environmental_effects_of_transport#Cars has not yet been written. So another possibility would be to rename this article to Environmental footprint of cars to widen its scope. Because there is some overlap between EV and ICE e.g. tyre particulates. Chidgk1 (talk) 07:06, 31 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think the environmental impact of ICE cars could be similar to that of EVs in the some stages of the product lifecycle - materials sourcing (with the exception of batteries), manufacturing, and end-of-life, but obviously not very similar in the actual daily use phase of the product. It definitely could be worth combining the two into a larger article about the env. impact of cars as a whole but perhaps just fully developing the article on EVs may be an easier task to bite off for now. Jayasurs (talk) 14:48, 31 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Renamed as suggested. Chidgk1 (talk) 06:46, 1 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Could cover all cars[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. The RM process is not for unilaterally forcing an article to have a different scope without consensus. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 02:59, 22 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Environmental footprint of electric cars → Environmental footprint of cars – Gasoline cars have a much bigger environmental footprint, but that does not have its own article. Non-tailpipe particulates are very important because they kill lots of people, and that info is much the same for electric cars and gasoline cars. If anyone else creates Environmental footprint of gasoline cars I will withdraw this request. If this request is accepted I will expand this article - for example by adding tailpipe emissions Chidgk1 (talk) 15:44, 8 April 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Turnagra (talk) 22:32, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose The nomination is motivated by ideology rather than Wikipedia policy, and as noted above the article's scope needs to be clarified before any rename is proposed. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:28, 16 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If the article's scope is still unclear to you please comment in the section above. Chidgk1 (talk) 08:29, 16 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Proposed new name doesn't match current scope of article because it would be confusing to readers to add gasoline specific info before a rename was agreed. Chidgk1 (talk) 05:42, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Wrong wordings, I think[edit]

"Under the provisionally agreed Euro 7 standard however electric cars would have a lower limit of non-exhaust particulates." It appears that Euro 7 standard is for traditional fossilfule powered vehicles, not for EV. ThomasYehYeh (talk) 00:22, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ThomasYehYeh: I have added a more official cite - please ping me if there is still a problem Chidgk1 (talk) 12:14, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The first cite mentioned tyres but the second does not so now I am only sure about brakes being different between ICE and EV - if you know about Euro 7 tyres maybe you can add the info. Chidgk1 (talk) 12:23, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Recommend to delete
See also: Rare earth metals availability and supply security
[edit]

I looked into Plug-in electric vehicle, and found there's no existence of "#Rare earth metals availability and supply security" anymore. Thank you for your kind attention. ThomasYehYeh (talk) 12:23, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ThomasYehYeh I don’t really understand the problem here. Can you not edit the article yourself? Chidgk1 (talk) 13:45, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, I can do that. Thank you for your response. ThomasYehYeh (talk) 23:46, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Problem with following wording[edit]

"According to The United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the ability to recycle greenhouse gas of an electric vehicle is far more superior than a gasoline car" What did the writer mean about "recycle greenhouse gas"? ThomasYehYeh (talk) 23:48, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Huybn2 wrote that we can see from wikipedia:WikiBlame But rather than waiting for their reply I think you should just fix it. If you cannot fix it let me know and I will have a go Chidgk1 (talk) 13:23, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I moved the whole paragraph to below as I am not sure it is useful (for example the solar panels claim seems dubious):
Charging a vehicle using only renewable energy (e.g., wind power or solar panels) yields a very low carbon footprint. According to The United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the ability to recycle greenhouse gas of an electric vehicle is far more superior than a gasoline car,[1] which is a great selling point for people who are looking to invest into the future in return for the electric car's longevity and reduction in total greenhouse gas emissions. The emissions are generated exclusively by the production and installation of the generation system (see Energy Returned On Energy Invested.) A household with solar panels can feasibly produce enough energy to offset the power needed to charge an electric car, and thus (on average) make the electric vehicle produce net-zero emissions. Chidgk1 (talk) 19:13, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Electric Vehicle Myths". www.epa.gov. 14 May 2021. Retrieved 2023-04-26.

Impact of cars on environment, society and urban planning[edit]

This article doesn't tell anything about the fact that EVs are still cars. Cars create low density, sprawling cities and their suburbs where you NEED a car and these kinds of development are worse for the environment than denser, urban neighbourhoods with transit and bikes. They kill people and animals directly and indirectly. They cost big amounts of national, municipal and private money. They are space inefficient, one Intercity train can take as much people as a few hundred cars. And the list goes on and on, from destruction of alternatives to cars to the destruction of urban and rural areas for cars. Kristo Mefisto (talk) 13:00, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps stuff that is common to EV and ICE cars should go in Effects of cars? Chidgk1 (talk) 13:14, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is also Effects of the car on societies Maybe you should ask at the automobiles wikiproject as the scope of the various articles is a bit unclear Chidgk1 (talk) 13:30, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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