Talk:History of Jainism

lol — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.44.127.197 (talk) 15:01, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Usage of Quote from "Samaññaphala Sutta"

Greetings. A section of this entry discusses the interactions of Jainism and Buddhism, being contemporaneous religions. Reading through part of this section gives me a message that is different from the source it sites.

The Buddha tried ascetic methods found in Jainism, abandoned that path and taught the Middle Way instead.[90] Many suttas of Buddhism acknowledge the Jain influence. The Samaññaphala Sutta (D i.47), for example, states:

Nigantha Nataputta answered with fourfold restraint. Just as if a person, when asked about a mango, were to answer with a breadfruit; or, when asked about a breadfruit, were to answer with a mango: In the same way, when asked about a fruit of the contemplative life, visible here and now, Nigantha Nataputta answered with fourfold restraint. The thought occurred to me: 'How can anyone like me think of disparaging a brahman or contemplative living in his realm?' Yet I [Buddha] neither delighted in Nigantha Nataputta's words nor did I protest against them. Neither delighting nor protesting, I was dissatisfied. Without expressing dissatisfaction, without accepting his teaching, without adopting it, I got up from my seat and left."[91]

The message this sends across is that the Buddha had, at some point, studied under or discoursed with Mahavira and found it an improper rite. But this is not the case in the Sutta.

The 'I' in this part of the text is not the Buddha; it is actually King Ajatasattu of Magadha, a former follower of the Buddha's schismatic cousin Devadatta, who approaches the Buddha in this Sutta to understand why anyone should take up the renunciant life. The quote used in the above section is Ajatasattu's response to hearing Mahavira's answer to his question; like the other śramana leaders he seeks for answers, Ajatasattu is not satisfied and so leaves. [The above source is the same as it is in the entry, Access to Insight's 'Samaññaphala Sutta', namely under the Fourfold Restraint subsection.]

As for what to do about this quote, I suggest removing it and finding another Sutta that better discusses how the two movements viewed each other. I recall there being other suttas where the Buddha counters Jaina thought; there is a Sutta that has him discredit the notion of exhausting karma by way of painful ascetic rituals, but I cannot remember its name at the present. Does anyone have ideas for other quotes to put here in its place, or for how to reword this section of the entry entirely?

SkandaSkribe (talk) 19:51, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Today I located that Sutta I mentioned in my entry a month ago: the Devadatta Sutta. (Link on Access to Insight) No one else has commented on the matter, so I'll rework that section of the page when I have the time. SkandaSkribe (talk) 02:50, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Jainism

Jainism is a religion founded in ancient India. Jains trace their history through twenty-four tirthankara and revere Rishabhanatha as the first tirthankara (in the present time-cycle). Some artifacts found in the Indus Valley civilization have been suggested as a link to ancient Jain culture, but very little is known about the Indus Valley iconography and script. The last two tirthankara, the 23rd tirthankara Parshvanatha (c. 9th–8th century BCE) and the 24th tirthankara Mahavira (c. 599 – c. 527 BCE) are considered historical figures. Mahavira was a contemporary of the Buddha. According to Jain texts, the 22nd Tirthankara Neminatha lived about 85,000 years ago and was the cousin of Krishna.[citation needed]

The two main sects of Jainism, the Digambara and the Śvētāmbara sect, likely started forming about the 3rd century BCE and the schism was complete by about 5th century CE. These sects later subdivided into several sub-sects such as Sthānakavāsī and Terapanthis. Many of its historic temples that still exist today were built in 1st millennium CE. After the 12th-century, the temples, pilgrimage and naked (skyclad) ascetic tradition of Jainism suffered persecution during the Muslim rule, with the exception of Akbar whose religious tolerance and support for Jainism led to a temporary ban on animal killing during the Jain religious festival of Dasa Lakshana. Jainism rejects the concept of creator and founder. In the present half cycle of the cosmos, Aadinatha was the first Tirthankara.[ 2409:4042:E95:C96A:FB8A:58FB:E98:3C06 (talk) 06:08, 8 June 2022 (UTC)