Talk:Hitohiro Saito

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Please provide a reference for Hitohiro Saito Sensei's use of the title "Soke." He does not seem to be using this title anywhere on his own official website Tanrenkan. Furthermore I do not believe he is affiliated with the Sensei still using the term Iwama Ryu such as Daniel Toutain or Michael Field. Iwama Ryu has ceased to exist as an organization and is different and completely separate from Saito Sensei's Iwama Shin-Shin Aiki Shuren-kai Shin-Shin Aiki-juku organization, is it not?

I have corrected the entry until further references are brought to light.

I have been carefully following the progress of Morihiro Saito Shihan's students since his death in 2002 and this endeavor has proven to be a wonderful education on the structure of Japanese martial arts organizations. I have a great amount of respect for the accomplishments of Saito Shihan's Yudansha and I think it is important for english speaking Aikido students to carefully research and understand the structure and logic behind Japanese Martial Arts' hierarchy and organization. In any given Japanese martial art there can be only one "Soke" or "Doshu" (synonymous terms) who can only be appointed by the "Kaiso" or "Founder" of the martial art. In the case of Aikido, Morihei Ueshiba was the Kaiso, that is creator or founder, of Aikido, and he appointed his son Kisshomaru as the "Doshu" or inheritor and headmaster of Aikido. After the Founder's death only the Soke can appoint the next Soke, and so on.

At this point it does not seem that Hitohiro Sensei has founded his own martial art separate from Aikido. While many of Morihiro Saito Shihan's students regard him as the technical heir or "de facto" Soke of Aikido, and while he is one of the very few instructors with the knowledge, competence, and vision to be a proper candidate for this title, there is only one official Soke of Aikido, currently Moriteru Ueshiba, grandson of the Founder. Returning to Hitohiro's position, his highest ranking in the Aikikai and under his own Father was 6th dan in Aikido. This leaves at least two practicioners, Ulf Evenas and Paolo Corallini actually ranked higher than Hitohiro, that is 7th dan by Morihiro Saito Shihan, which implies that Evanas or Corallini are at least as qualified, if not more so, than Hitohiro Saito Sensei to be the de facto "Soke" of Aikido. You can see how, from a Western point of view, if you are looking for the "technical heir" of Aikido, or the person who, in Japanese thinking, received "complete transmission" of the art, the situation is muddled indeed. Furthermore, the head of every martial art should strive to ensure "complete transmission" of the art to as many qualified students as possible to avoid the risks involved in having only one person as the repository for all the institutional knowledge he or she has learned. Considering this wouldn't all those students who were ranked 8th dan (Morihiro Saito's rank at the time of Ueshiba Kaiso's death) be likely candidates for "complete transmission" of Aikido?

Ultimately, the title itself is far less important than the person and the path. Wavejay (talk) 17:12, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Any explanation or link about why Hitohiro Saito split from Aikikai organisation and created his own? 80.41.122.210 12:24, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hitohiro Sensei is, logically, not using the title "Soke" but this title is used by thousands of his students when refering to him, as they regard him, justly, the legal and technical heir of Morihiro Saito. Titles are most often given by the people than used by the person himself/herself. According this encyclopedia: Sōke (宗家 ?), a Japanese title meaning "head of the family," and is usually used to denote the headmaster of a school of Japanese martial arts. And that is what his students consider him: the head of the Dentou Iwama Ryu family, the head of his own family, and the headmaster of a japanese martial arts school. Maybe this will be changed soon, but,until then, out of respect for the headmaster (which is a very good thing), the students will surely continue to use this title. The title is not to be compared to the title of Doushuu (道主) (The Main Master of the Way) of the Aikikai organization and is only used when refering to Dentou Iwama Ryu. To Dentou Iwama Ryu students, the first Soke was Morihei Ueshiba, the second was Morihiro Saito and now the third is his son and successor, designated by Morihiro himself, Hitohiro Saito. Aikido students world wide respect all the different Ryu of Aikido which formed before or after the Founder passed away. This process will not stop and eventually even the word Aikido will disappear. But we all have learned to respect these traditions while they remain for they attest to the profoundity of this budou. Regarding the Sensei who are "still" using the name "Iwama Ryu", we see that it is not the legal successor of Morihiro Saito who has to be affiliated with them, but rather them who have to be affilitated with the group created for him by his father Morihiro which now has come to be called Iwama Shin Shin Aikishurenkai. Furthermore, in order to separate himself from these teachers, and in order to reafirm his stand on continuing the study deeply the arts of the Founder and of his Father, Hitohiro Saito Sensei has designated it Dentou Iwama Ryu. In this way, he also says, there will not be any conflicts with those who want to call it Iwama Ryu. However, the name Iwama Ryu is now more often used by Hitohiro Sensei students who are growing at an alarming rate, than by the others, who seem to be receeding and joining other organizations such as Takemusu Aikido organizations who are linked to the Aikikai foundation and, therefore, are not allowed to use the above name. The structure of Japanese Martial arts organizations, through the centuries, just as everywhere, changes according to the necessities of the actors. The founder himself was by some regarded to be one of the possible successors of the famous Takeda Sokaku Sensei, as were others. However, at the time, he decided not to follow this master anymore, actually having runned away from him in order to avoid any meeting. He ended up "forming" his own art, which was not at all regarded as a "decent" thing to do, by the other masters of Daito Ryu, and of other traditional japanese martial arts. He was not the most highly graded student of Takeda Sensei and yet, he formed his own art.

The Aikikai's Moriteru Sensei and Kisshomaru Sensei before him did not follow the normal standards for grading for they were always recognized as the future Doushuu. Grading them would not have influenced this future position. Hitohiro Sensei's position, in the eyes of his own father and in the eyes of his students, is the same. The same happened in all other organization created by the students of the founder, who either left him (the founder) or who left the Aikikai organization for equal of different reasons: Inoue Sensei (his cousin) of Shin'ei Taido, Shioda Sensei of the Yoshikan, Tomiki of the Tomiki Ryu Aikido, Mochizuki of the Yoseikan Budou, Minoru Hirai of the Korindo (who actually was the main person involved in creating the word Aikido inside the Butokukai)..... In reference to Saito Sensei's grading from the Founder, for a correction, Morihiro Saito, over the years, repeatedly said that he received the 9th Dan from the Founder Ueshiba, but the Aikikai organization refused to publish it in the official Dan list. This led to his refusal to accept the 9th Dan from the organization for many years. In the end he accepted "for the sake of my students". We cannot compare the amount of techniques and of budou knowledge that Morihito Saito received from the Founder to that of the other masters who also received the 8th Dan, or more, from the Founder/Aikikai, for the way in which each of these other teachers were taught by the founder was completly different, inconstant and therefore incomplete. They themselves knew this and frequently contacted Saito Sensei for information on the founders's techniques.

Furthermore, we cannot at all say that people who visited Iwama sparingly, received more technical and formal knowledge on the art, from Morihiro Sensei that his own son who was born at the dojo, lived there, grew up there and learned directly under the founder (as did his sisters, one of them having even received shoudan from Morihei), learned under his father Morihiro and, that during his years of studying to become a Chef also studied from such famous masters as Seiseki Abe and Hanzawa Shihan.

You say "I have corrected the entry until further references are brought to light" this states that there is more to come. I regard your decision on erasing texts which were not written by you as very sectarian and with the need of having only your point of view to prevail. Please discuss your points of view here and refrain from "correcting" the the entry, until further references are brought to light. This would be a correct gesture.

At the end, you yourselve stated that "Ultimately, the title itself is far less important than the person and the path" but, yet, you brought this discussion to light. Why then?

I have it on good authority that Saito sensei recently changed his name from Hitohiro to Hitohira. However my Japanese is still very limited, so I'm not able to verify this. Could somebody research this and make the necessary corrections? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.141.95.202 (talk) 00:44, 21 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, on what authority exactly? His website says "Hitohiro" not "Hitohira". Cesiumfrog (talk) 23:54, 15 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

History[edit]

Are there any reference sources for his personal history?

Was Hitohiro ever given a rank, even a kyu grade or a shodan? Or was he always treated as outside of the ranking system (even by the founder, before aikido even had a doshu)?

"However, the divergences with the Aikikai foundation become deep as the organization did not accept the request from Hitohiro that it be stated in the official magazine of the organization that the Iwama Aikido was the original Aikido from Morihei Ueshiba. These divergences made him separate from the Aikikai in February 2004"

Really? The separation may have been triggered by the magazine editing, but it seems unlikely to be the root cause, and surprising that he would ever expect Aikido Doshu and Aikido World Headquarters suddenly to describe themselves as secondary and inferior to Saito-junior. Was there something else more substantial? Was it only afterward that Hitohiro was replaced as instructor at the main Iwama dojo?

More significantly, why had Hitohiro been motivated to build his own dojo so near by, back in advance? Cesiumfrog (talk) 23:05, 23 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hitohiro's Rank while still in the Aikikai can be found on their webpage in the old newsletters section for the All Japan Aikido Demonstration. He is credited as 6th dan. Regarding the personal history, one important clarification requirement is evidence of him being a student of Morihei Ueshiba, since Hitohiro was in elementary school during the period stated in the article (elementary school students were taught in the Sports Shonendan under Watahiki and Inagaki). At the moment, the only citation is a like to an interview with Hitohiro himself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.232.52.138 (talk) 05:51, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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