Talk:Hong Kong 97 (video game)

Evidence?

Really, I doubt this game actually existed. All we have is the SIXSAMANA article written by the supposed designer of the game, a image of the supposed cover, and a ROM. It could have just been a homebrew made to create awareness for the SIXSAMANA e-Books, as a sort of advertising campaign. If there is a picture of the supposed cover, why is there no picture of the game floppy? I really think that if there is no evidence, this article should be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheDutchOwner (talk • contribs) 22:35, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

How can you even say that when there are Youtube videos featuring it? Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 17:04, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

I've found an article about the game on Geocities, and added to the references. This bizarre game really existed. 201.219.248.212 (talk) 00:20, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Wheres the link? 73.181.167.112 (talk) 18:45, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Here it is. Cheers, Manifestation (talk) 17:23, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Dead guy

Apparently the mysterious corpse that appears on the game over screen was discovered to be of polish boxer Leszek Błażyński, who indeed commited suicide in August 6, 1992. Should this information be added, since i don't think it has been 100% confirmed yet? Maybe someone can find a reliable source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8A0:FEEA:B01:8C32:FA73:BE44:5FEE (talk) 15:40, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Wrong, read it as day/month like an European would: 8 June 1992. From this, there's speculation that it is Atef Bseiso. --177.42.142.161 (talk) 17:10, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

Now this video claims it may be Farag Foda. But then the time stamp is off by one day. --177.19.96.221 (talk) 18:52, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

I removed it because it was unsourced. There's nothing linking him to that image except the date, afaik. TussilagoFanfara (talk) 02:03, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

What went through the developer's mind when using this image for his nonsensical "game"? Someone on a message board also mentions and shows he used an image of holocaust victims. Does the developer have so little empathy and does he like to make fun of dead people? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.253.186.62 (talk) 19:57, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Dead body

Wouldn't the fact that the dead body on the death screen is a still frame from a VHS tape which has never been found to this date warrant the developer being reported to the Japanese police in the suspicion of having killed someone and recorded their corpse? His interview even passingly mentions people asking him where the dead body is from but he refuses to answer it Sentido33 (talk) 19:53, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Kurosawa most likely didn't answer it because he actually didn't remember where he took the picture from. The picture is from a Japanese mondo film which can be found here. See 28:50. - Manifestation (talk) 10:53, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Scans

Here are high quality scans of HK97's insert, the diskette, and the cover. I believe they were uploaded by youtuber Ultra Healthy Video Game Nerd, who made some videos about the game and actually owns a copy of it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.134.141.173 (talk) 06:46, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

 Implemented. I've uploaded the scan of the cover art. And yes, they were made by the Ultra Healthy Video Game Nerd: the user who uploaded them is called ultrahealthy. Unfortunately, while his scans are high-res, they are quite dark. I have therefore increased the exposure and brightness before uploading. Cheers, Manifestation (talk) 17:16, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

PC remake

There's a fan-made version of the game for Windows. here. --177.42.142.161 (talk) 16:47, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

I've mirrored Arquivos da Morte on Liveleak

I've put a copy of Arquivos da Morte: Guerra, the source of the game over screen, on Liveleak. See here. The image of the dead man can be found at 28:50. !!WARNING!! The documentary is pretty gruesome at points, and the image in question is actually preceded by footage of a corpse with the intestines blown out and the right arm torn off. NSFW.

I've downloaded this mondo film from YouTube, from here. The reason I mirrored it to Liveleak is because the movie obviously violates YouTube's terms of service. If someone reports, it's gone.

An AVI version of the movie can also be downloaded here. This may actually be the source of the YouTube video, but I'm not sure.

Cheers, Manifestation (talk) 16:55, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Hmm... I'm actually surprised that the above edit got through. Liveleak turns out not to be on the url-blocklist (either local or global). I suspected it was. If my mirror-video is not removed by the Liveleak administrators, I will add it to this Wikipedia article. - Manifestation (talk) 17:03, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

The folks at Liveleak seem to tolerate the mirror, so I've added it to the article as a backup. Meanwhile, another user has added the original name of the mondo film to the article: New Death File III (新・デスファイルIII). It's not available online... yet. - Manifestation (talk) 15:28, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

So... In 22:24 the guy say somehting like this: The images we will show, is a documentary edited that was created by serbian TV channel. Can we find the original footage? Maybe there were more information on it. By the way, this find is incredible. 200.152.43.203 (talk) 19:53, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

I don't understand Portuguese, but the narrator audibly mentions Serbians, Bosnians, and Croats, so I assumed this was from the Bosnian War. I doubt the original footage will ever be uploaded. - Manifestation (talk) 10:47, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Yes, your are correct. This is about the Bosnian War. But what I said is something like this:

1. First they create this original documentary. I really don't know if was in serbian language, but in "Arquivos da Morte", I can hear an english language in backgroung see like 22:38. Look like Britain english.
2. Then they create the original japanese movie of "Arquivos da Morte" and dubbed it in japanese.
3. Finally, this was dubbed in Portuguese. We have a layer of 3 or 4 language :)

All the time of the documentary, the narrator say somethings like this: they try to show de serbian as victim and their side in this war. 200.152.43.203 (talk) 17:44, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

The credits of New Death File III (aka Arquivos da Morte) list several people. At least one of them should know where the original war footage was taken from. - Manifestation (talk) 17:49, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

Chin as a heroin addict

It doesn't say anywhere in the game that he's a heroin addict. It only says that he's a relative of Bruce Lee hired by the Hong Kong government. One of the supposed sources is in Japanese and neither one of them are affiliated with the people who made the game as far as I'm aware. Are there any official sources listing him as a heroin addict? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.189.193.27 (talk) 07:10, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

Yes, you're right. Here is a playthrough of the game. It does not say that Chin is a heroin addict. - Manifestation (talk) 16:48, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

Scans of the insert were released at the beginning of 2019. While in Japanese, part of the text on the back of the insert claims Chin is a heroin addict. While this isn't 'canon' in the game, I think that a part regarding 'the back of the insert claims Chin is a heroin addict' should be added. ToQ100gou! ToQ100gou! Shupatsu Shinkou! (the chitter-chatter) 00:01, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, it makes sense since Chin uses syringes (which is one way heroin is administered) as a power-up for invincibility. Also, the creator Kowloon Kurosawa would often write about drugs. SapphireWilliams (talk page • contributions) 08:39, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

@ToQ100gou and Sapphire Williams:  Done. I guess I was wrong, so I've added it to the article. - Manifestation (talk) 16:39, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

AVGN, UHVGN, and Dead File

See these edits: 1, 2, 3;

and this thread: User talk:Namcokid47#Hong Kong 97.

User:Namcokid47 has removed the following sources from the article:

1. A video by a YouTuber called the Ultra Healthy Video Game Nerd. He made a video called "The complete history of Hong Kong 97" (link). The video has clearly been researched extensively, and was made with personal input from the designer of Hong Kong 97, Kowloon Kurosawa. It is the most detailed description of the game's origins yet.
2. Episode 134 of the Angry Video Game Nerd (link). The info in the video itself is not used in the article. The video as a whole is cited as evidence that the AVGN made an episode around it. This is essential, because it is the AVGN who introduced HK97 to a mass audience.
3. The Japanese mondo film New Death File III (link). This video is the source of the Game Over screen. The link automatically forwards the YouTube video to the timestamp on which the picture can be seen. The link was previously removed by an admin as a copyright violation. Someone then added a Citation needed tag, which caused the link to be re-added.

Namcokid47 removed all of the above sources, dismissing them as "unreliable". I've tried to explain to him why his vision on reliability is incorrect in this context, but he doesn't seem to get it. Can someone at least put #1 and #2 back? Preferably #3 as well. I know it's a copyright violation, but I am partly anti-copyright, so I don't care.

As an aside, here's some semi-related news: a few weeks ago, the Ultra Healthy Video Game Nerd sat down with Kowloon Kurosawa for an interview! Two days ago, he posted on YouTube that the video of this meeting is mostly ready and will be uploaded this Sunday! Could be interesting. Cheers, Manifestation (talk) 22:21, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Namcokid is, for the most part, spot on for #1 and #2. Neither UHVGN nor AVGN are reliable sources. They fail WP:USERG, and WP:VG/S explicitly lists AVGN as unusable unless an actual RS calls attention to him. The sections from the UHVGN may be usable for the information that came from the developer, but otherwise it shouldn't be used. JOEBRO64 22:40, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

I wanna throw in the fact that I removed the Death File video due to it being a copyright violation, as it's a straight reupload of a DVD that the uploader didn't get permission to reupload, so it should absolutely not be added back in. Wikipedia does not take copyright violations lightly, not to mention that YouTube isn't even a valid source to begin with unless the uploader or publication is reliable. Namcokid47 ^(Contribs) 00:12, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

@TheJoebro64 and Namcokid47: It is bizarre to see that people believe they are improving an article, when they are actually worsening it, without realizing it. It is backwards thinking. I am stunned by your comments. - Manifestation (talk) 19:13, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a respiratory for every single bit of trivia for every single subject, it is based on significant coverage from publications or people that are reliable per user consensus. That's what an encyclopedia is supposed to be, and it annoys me to no end how people think the opposite is true. Joebro sums my comments up perfectly on why your edits are nonconstructive and against policy, and I would really take the time to study WP:RELIABLE, WP:USERG, WP:NOTABILITY, and especially WP:CV. If you aren't even willing to do that, then you probably shouldn't be editing here in the first place. Namcokid47 ^(Contribs) 19:23, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Cool. I find your complete ignorance of WP:RS and WP:COPYVIO even more stunning. JOEBRO64 22:16, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

What harm do you believe these videos are doing? - Manifestation (talk) 07:41, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

"What's the harm?" is a highly unconvincing argument, in part because it contains the implicit admission that there is no reason to think the proposed action would do any good. Besides, the policy pages linked by JoeBro and NamcoKid pretty clearly explain what the harm is.--Martin IIIa (talk) 21:13, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

I have to throw in the fact nobody except this Ultra Healthy Video Game Nerd really seems to have any info about this game. I strongly suspect ultrahealthy himself of being involved in some way with this hoax. Everything on the internet, from the Youtube videos to the alleged scans over on archive.org all trace back to this single point. Is it possible he "discovered" it? Maybe. But I am way more skeptical this game actually existed as a game and not just an internet thing. Since someone else linked to the archive.org make sure to look at the name of who uploaded all these files. Kav2001c (talk) 07:29, 5 January 2022 (UTC)kav2001c

References

Interview with Kurosawa

I already referred to it in the thread above, and now it has been released: an interview with Kowloon Kurosawa by a YouTuber called the Ultra Health Video Game Nerd. The video is 1 hour long, and covers many aspects of Kurosawa's colorful life. To my knowledge, this is the first video interview with him ever. I've added the url to his Wikipedia article as an external link. Cheers, Manifestation (talk) 07:44, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

How is this game racist?

Yeah the game looks and plays like crap, but the two articles quoted accusing the game of racism fail to back up their assertion. Kotaku just claims it without explanation, an La Monde flat out lies and claims the game tells you to "kill 1.2 billion Chinese" (the in-game text clearly says Communists). Stupid, yeah, but words mean something. No where in the game does it attack people for their race, just their political ideology. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:10A2:5CB0:186E:E2B2:4CE6:5FE1 (talk) 04:48, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Indeed, it's somewhat like a "Red Scare" and the developer and the represented people are all the same "race". --Vipz (talk) 14:26, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Of course "fuckin' ugly reds" and "dirty people spitting sputum" are pure political descriptors, but anything against the glass heart CCP is getting labeled 'racist' and 'hate speech' while the CCP behaves like the Nazi's did in the 30's/40's. 2401:7400:6001:6F49:7976:E6F9:1EAD:2B6C (talk) 06:47, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

it has absolutely nothing to do with race, with the Hong Kong people being from the same ethnic groups that are/where in mainland China. it's pure political, not racial at all. but I guess anything against communism (and especially the CCP) is getting labeled 'racist' and 'hate speech' while the CCP behaves like the Nazi's did in the 30's/40's. 2001:1C00:E07:6700:6D20:1E3B:AEE5:470C (talk) 15:12, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Agreed, the genocide of 1.2 billion chinese is clearly portrayed as merely a political issue not a racial one. The premise of the game that interaction with the mainland chinese causing crime needing no explanation is a example of social-economical issue, totally not racial in nature. That’s why this game is not racist; and being released in 95 shows great foresight and actually very woke on the issues of Hong Kong once it’s no longer british. 2401:7400:6001:6F49:7976:E6F9:1EAD:2B6C (talk) 06:37, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Who developed the game?

I thought the Enid employee was the one who developed the game Also did HappySoft even exist? Jdietr601 (talk) 01:27, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Enix* Jdietr601 (talk) 01:27, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Dead body original source

From what I gathered, the original image of "Chin's" corpse came from a Brazilian film Arquivos da Morte: Guerra Civil. I noticed that the URLs in the talk page that leak to the movie were down, so (CONTENT WARNING)

this is the exact source of the "Chin is dead" image. I hope this helps... - OpalYosutebito (talk) 06:53, 2 February 2024 (UTC)