Talk:Igor Abramovych

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On 9 February 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from Ihor Abramovych to Igor Abramovych. The result of the discussion was moved.

Requested move 9 February 2023[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Per [[User:Perohanych|]]; when it comes to titling BLPs, the subject's views on the matter – if they exist – do carry some weight. I have no reason to doubt Yuri is telling the truth, so the weight falls towards "Igor". (closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre (talk) 20:28, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ihor Abramovych → Igor Abramovych – "Move" - real name of this person is Igor, not Ihor Ivanenko.M707 (talk) 19:26, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose A Ukrainian subject with a Ukrainian name by default has their name romanized per WP:UKR. This subject’s name seems to appear very little in English-language media making it unlikely that there is a single most commonly used name in English per WP:COMMONNAME.

Note that the subject’s real name is Ігор Абрамович in both Russian and Ukrainian, and the proposed title is romanized with a mix of Russian (Igor not Ihor) and Ukrainian (Abramovych not Abramovich) methods. (This could represent one of the rarely used “international” [Soviet] methods that are based on Russian phonology.)

I attempted to survey usage.

Professional: the ex-MP appears on only one archived English-language page on the Ukrainian parliamentary website as Ihor Abramovych.[1]

Books: coudn’t find a single mention of him by any spelling on Google Books.

News:

Ihor Abramovych[2] 7
Igor Abramovych[3] 5 probable mentions
Igor Abramovich[4] about 5
Ihor Abramovich[5] 3

Abramovych is an art collector, but there also appears to be an art dealer/curator with the same name, so I am not sure of the counts. I also discounted a few results with photograph captions from Dreamstime ©photography Igor Abramovych. Related searches also tend to find many mentions of Russian oligarch Roman Abramovich.

I couldn’t find a single mention in the The Times (London), The New York Times, or the Kyiv Independent. In the Kyiv Post he’s only mentioned once as Ihor Abramovych,[6] and once as Igor Abramovich.[7] —Michael Z. 20:32, 10 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per Michael Z. Subject is indeed Ukrainian, born in Ukraine, therefore his name should be transliterated into English using the Ukrainian name form, not the Russian form. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 20:47, 10 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per Michael Z - the letter "г" is translated as "h" in Ukrainian, and Abramovych is almost always referred to by his Ukrainian name, rather than a mixture of Russian and Ukrainian that doesn't follow Wikipedia's transliteration rules of either language. Mupper-san (talk) 00:06, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Opposehe's Ukrainian—blindlynx 20:01, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support see below—blindlynx 17:24, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Support, I have asked assistants of Abramovych to send me a copy of Abramovych's passport. I have got the copy of the first page of his passport of citizen of Ukraine for travelling abroad. Below is a fragment of the page:

@Mzajac, Roman Spinner, Mupper-san, and Blindlynx: As you can see, he is Igor Abramovych, not Ihor. --Perohanych (talk) 10:02, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I notice that the passport was issued three-and-a-half years ago, in August 2019. Events have moved on since then and Ukrainians have been vocal in asserting their national identity as evidenced by the name adjustment request made by Chess Grandmaster Vasyl Ivanchuk at Talk:Vasyl Ivanchuk#Requested move 18 April 2020. Since you have been able to communicate with Abramovych's assistants, perhaps another attempt at communication will elicit a statement from Abramovych himself as to his preference. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 17:05, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:OFFICIALNAMES, WP:OR, WP:TITLE.

His passport spelling was probably established when Soviet/Russian style romanization was in use by the passport issuer, before 2010. The current rules would not normally allow this in a first-time passport. This has nothing to do with our naming conventions.

How did you contact them and how do you know who communicated with you? Did you identify yourself as Wikipedia editor? Did you tell them it was for renaming the article? Did they state his English spelling preference? —Michael Z. 19:24, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I myself am an assistant to a current member of the Ukrainian Parliament, and I am often on the sidelines of the Supreme Council of Ukraine. Many people know that I am an active Wikipedian. Therefore, I was contacted by phone and informed about Abramovych's request to change his name in the English Wikipedia from Ihor to Igor. I asked if they could send me a copy of his passport. Having received a complete copy of the first page of the passport, I made a fragment of it and published it here. Therefore, yes, Igor is the English spelling preference of Abramovych himself. --Perohanych (talk) 11:53, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

i've changed my !vote based on it being his preference—blindlynx 17:24, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean therefore? The spelling assigned by the passport authority is not necessarily the recipient’s preference. —Michael Z. 08:26, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"I was contacted by phone and informed about Abramovych's request to change his name in the English Wikipedia from Ihor to Igor" . It`s Abramovych's preference Igorchal (talk) 11:11, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have recently supported a move based on subject’s own preferred spelling, based on what we see in their public presence online. But this is different, when the only rationale for a move is the private communication from the subject. Does the subject have any personal or professional web presence?

I note that the nominator has a total of 15 edits during a single day, and the comment I’m responding to is a sole edit.

This situation is above my pay grade. Does anyone know of applicable guidelines? —Michael Z. 15:11, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Mzajac, Roman Spinner, and Mupper-san: --Perohanych (talk) 07:46, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support, name is clearly Igor. --Killuminator (talk) 07:47, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.