Talk:Ilyas Kashmiri

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Untitled[edit]

His name has Kashmiri in it, which is incorrect. He has no links to the Valley of Kashmiri but in reality is a Mirpuria. There is a huge difference between a Mirpuria and a Kashmiri. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.88.88.173 (talk) 15:32, 1 June 2011 (UTC) [reply]


Words to avoid: terrorist[edit]

While many, perhaps most, English speakers might consider this man a terrorist, that term is a pejorative term that should be avoided. Please see WP:terrorist. RDavi404 (talk) 00:42, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, we can have a sentence along the lines of "He is considered a terrorist by states x, y, etc" or "his organization is considered a terrorist org by x, y, etc" but in the main body of the article it's best to use more descriptive and neutral terms. Joshdboz (talk) 01:19, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dead or alive[edit]

We have conflicting accounts of as he is death or alive. So we should not present his dead as truth. This is after all a BLP. IQinn (talk) 06:14, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Added "allegedly killed" on the intro, plus new cat. This is the norm for articles about missing people such as Amelia Earhart and Jimmy Hoffa. Joyson Noel Holla at me! 07:40, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm.. well not sure what other people say but i think i can live with that for the moment, i just changed the word "was" to "is". Hope that is fine. IQinn (talk) 08:07, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Not a problem! :-) Joyson Noel Holla at me! 09:39, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Dawn News Report Was Not A Reliable Report[edit]

All it had to back it's claims of his survival were remarks made by unnamed people. The story had no credible resource, such as a picture, an audio recording, an intelligence analysis or even a video of Kashmiri. For all we know, these claims may have been made by Taliban or Al Qaeda fighters trying to debunk his death to motivate the jihad movement. The Taliban made such a claim for TTP leader Baitullah Mehsud after he was killed, but finally accepted his death when a replacement was named.JoetheMoe25 (talk) 00:44, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I just added a few more references. Down is a big media organization please note also that Wikipedia is verifiability not truth. There is also no DNA evidence or any other clear evidence that he is actually death and our article at it's current version claims that he is death so i think there is no problem to add some opposing views. Not claiming they are right. IQinn (talk) 00:56, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Iqinn. There is no official confirmation of Kashmiri's death by the US or Pakistan, and there are conflicting accounts in the media, so Wikipedia should report this. -- JTSchreiber (talk) 04:53, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, the Dawn news report was a basic example of yellow journalism. You need to read the news report for yourselves. They had had nothing to back their claims. They offered nothing of value, such as: 1) an intelligence analysis; 2) an updated photograph; or 3) a recently published audio or video recording. All they had were statements from anonymous sources, who weren't even identified as security officials investigating his death. Throughout the years, people have also claimed to have seen Elvis and it has been reported. Like I also said, they could've been Al Qaeda-linked fighters who were trying to claim still he was to motivate the movement. They haven't even named a successor and could be stalling until one is named. The Pakistan Taliban did the same thing when Baitullah Mehsud was killed JoetheMoe25 (talk) 21:53, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not edit warring and try to solve your disputes on the talk page. You do not have consensus to remove this sourced information. I agree with JTSchreiber that we should cover both sides to achieve WP:NPOV. It is than up to the reader to decide. Dawn is one of the leading news organization in Pakistan and clearly RS nevertheless i have now clearly attributed it to Dawn so there seems to be no problem anymore. IQinn (talk) 22:43, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
JoetheMoe25, I still agree with Iqinn. It is not appropriate for you to remove the disputed content when you do not have consensus. As far as the Elvis comparison, that's quite a stretch. In the case of Elvis, officials never had to retract an earlier claim that Elvis had died. Also, officials would have had access to Elvis' body to make a positive identification. That's very different than a drone attack, where the victims are often burned beyond recognition and the bodies are uaually not recovered by security officials. -- JTSchreiber (talk)
Not to pile on but it is appropriate to report all sides with due weight. Marcus Qwertyus 05:45, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Look up the definition of consensus. It is an agreement made after judging something or an opinion reached by a group as a whole. Yes, I do have consensus. I read the article and I judged it quite accurately. It was complete yellow journalism. Your rebuttal to my Elvis comments made no sense either. They would have to have access Kashmiri's body through at least a recording to prove their claim he was alive, which they did not. I also do not care about how high ranking Dawn newspaper is either. The newspaper is written in a country where libel laws are not enforced greatly-as preserved newspaper articles online will tell you- and has tended to exaggerate the number of civilians killed in drone strikes. Read their archives for yourselfJoetheMoe25 (talk) 21:39, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A consensus can be a judgement made be one individual when others do not agree? That's an interesting definition, but not the one that's used in Wikipedia standards. See WP:CONSENSUS.
As far as my rebuttal about Elvis, the point is that the more evidence there is that a person is dead, the less weight would tend be given to reports that the person is still alive. There's much more evidence of death in the case of Elvis than of Kashmiri, so it's a stretch to compare the two.
As far as the reliability of the newspaper Dawn, you are welcome to your personal opinions and can write about them in various places, such as your user page. However, on this talk page, we discuss whether the newspaper is reliable by Wikipedia standards. On Wikipedia's reliable sources noticeboard, the past discussion of Dawn has determined that Dawn is reliable by Wikipedia standards. -- JTSchreiber (talk) 05:27, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Reports That Kashmiri Is Alive Are Typical Yellow Journalism Written To Encourage People To Buy And Read Newspapers[edit]

One of the sources that reported what the Daily Times said stated that journalists cannot access the tribal regions in northern Pakistan. Yellow journalism is not reliable.75.72.35.253 (talk) 22:04, 8 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Daily Times article itself states "It is always difficult to confirm reports in Pakistan’s volatile Tribal Areas that are no-go areas for journalists." The Al-Akhbar article simply repeats what was reported in the Daily Times and adds nothing new.--RDavi404 (talk) 14:02, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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