Talk:Impossible Subjects

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planning synopsis and summary of introduction[edit]

Summary of Intro:

Ngai explains the purpose of the book saying, "immigrants are integral to the historical processes that define and redefine the nation."^[1] Ngai breaks the introduction into three sections which are "Immigration and Citizenship," "Immigration Policy and the Production of Racial Knowledge," and "Nationalism and Sovereignty." She also begins to discuss several immigration laws that were enacted throughout the history of the U.S. including the Johnson-Reed Act of 1924. Lastly, she says that she does not want to resolve the problems of immigration policy, but rather to inform the reader of how flexible legislation and public opinion are. She frequently underlines how immigration laws created new race cataglories and were aimed at maintaining whiteness.

Synopsis: In part I, Ngai begins with discussing the implications of immigration restriction in the 1920's by particularly focusing on border patrol and immigration policy which she argues results in a changing discourse about race. In part II, she focuses on the migrants from the Philippines and Mexico by discussing their role in the U.S. economy and how they challenged cultural norms about the traditional work force. In part III, Ngai examines the shift of regulations around Japanese-Americans and Chinese-Americans especially their eligibility for citizenship. She uses Japanese internment camps as evidence of their lack of legal and social inclusion in the United States. In part IV, she analyzes the next era in immigration policy which she suggests is embodied in the Hart-Cellar Act. She discusses how immigration policy was affected during the years of 1945-1965 by World War II. She concludes part IV by showing how the immigration policies during the time period after 1965 contributed to increased illegal immigration and heightened a seemingly unsolvable problem going forward. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmpfer04 (talk • contribs) 02:14, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Ngai, Mae M (2004). Impossible subjects: illegal aliens and the making of modern America. ISBN 978-0-691-16082-5 978-1-4008-4362-6 978-1-4008-5023-5. {{cite book}}: Check |isbn= value: length (help)

Class Discussion: Sections[edit]

Timelines: The background section could be a good place for this. Perhaps for supreme court cases or legislation in table format
Historiography in reception: gaps, where it fits in. Use book reviews from academic search complete
Why do people like this/what do they get from it
Each group writes a three or four sentence overview for each section that they do
Use of terms throughout the work

Class Discussion: Additions[edit]

Cover photo for increased views in searches
Maybe images for significant time periods
Graphs or data from the work itself

Class Discussion: What we need[edit]

Timeline of legislation
Clear chronology is really important
Themes
Chapter overview with the sections mentioned to give it context
Critical reception
Background/context

Jgriffith19 (talk) 16:15, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Themes[edit]

In her introduction Ngai categorizes her book into three distinct themes. Perhaps a "Themes" section, both her very explicitly defined themes and the interpretation of other prolific reviewers or academics, would be beneficial for a greater understanding of the narrative. Elyseeche (talk) 19:05, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

We can find critiques of the book to cite for identifying themes that run throughout the book to include in either the synopsis or themes section. We can also add more to the general reception section with reviews as a way to add more perspectives. Rem1419 (talk) 00:52, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think these themes is where we can build our argument from. I feel that the content should accurately describe the narrative she proposes while still being neutral. I think that will be the hardest thing, since her whole narrative is very biased. Collegekid2020 (talk) 13:22, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Possible Article Sections[edit]

There should be a general summary section of the content of the book. Possible ideas could be the overview of the chapters and what they say. Another small improvement for the article could be the inclusion of a picture of the book cover. Wldub (talk) 19:58, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Should the overview be of the chapters or the parts? Most of the parts consist of two chapters so I guess it depends on how thorough we want to be. On that note an individual chapter summary would be best as this is a non-fiction book and the chapters hold different information that needs to be addressed separately. Sokeefe19 (talk) 00:54, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I like both of these ideas, and think it will be helpful to provide detailed chapter information to help orient readers. Katherine.Holt (talk) 21:53, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Organization of Article[edit]

Based on the way that Ngai organizes her introduction, I think we could organize this article by the different decades that Ngai argues had the biggest impact on immigration (i.e 1920s-1960s). Ngai presents information on immigration that goes through WWI, WWII, the Cold War, and beyond, citing several Acts passed by Congress throughout those decades that affected immigrants. By organizing the article this way, it would allow us to see the bigger picture of immigration history and how it has shifted and changed over time. --Snoakes (talk) 21:49, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I like your idea of sectioning the article based on historical era because of how it could clarify the issue throughout history. Do you think that there should be sub-headings within the different decades classifying the different legislation and race issues at the time in order to connect to the broader context of immigration throughout the past century? Sezshana (talk) 03:42, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sections of Article[edit]

I think that this article should be broken down into sections by the topics in which Mae M. Ngai examines. Based off of the author's introduction in the book, this article might want to be broken into three areas that Ngai covers. These sections would be: "Statutory Structures", "Judicial Genealogies", and "Administrative Enforcement of Restrictive Immigration Policy." The article could then be broken down into smaller sub-sections, under each of these three sections, that dive into more of the details that Ngai focuses on throughout her work. In addition, for the introduction summary, we could possibly add how this book was/is viewed by scholars and the significance it has had on the larger community. Abloom18 (talk) 23:29, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Article Organization[edit]

Because Ngai has already organized her book into four sections, I think that replicating this on our Wikipedia page would be a great idea. By doing it this way, we are following more accurately the tradition of the book. However, I think that we should also include an introductory paragraph that outlines the four sections, as well as defining important terms that she uses throughout the book, such as “illegal aliens.” Ngai does a great way of introducing the topic and explaining the importance of such topics in various historical contexts so, this should also be included in the introductory sentence. Oholland9619 ([[User talk:Oholland9619 (talk) 23:34, 26 February 2017 (UTC)Oholland9619|talk]]) 23:34, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

New Heading Immigration Legislation and its Impact[edit]

Since the author is going to in part track immigration through the legislation that has been passed it only seems right that there would be a few sections about the important legislation the Ngai chooses to focus on. An example would be Johnson-Reed Act and the precedent it set for the future of immigration policy in the United States. Make2018 (talk) 00:23, 27 February 2017 (UTC)make2018[reply]

I definitely agree with you that legislation should be a focal point of one section. One of Ngai's overarching goals for the book is to present legislation and its impact on the construction and development of immigration historically, therefore, I think legislation is a necessary section to add in order to emphasize the historical importance of legislation in the discussion of the issue as a whole. Sezshana (talk) 03:41, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Possibilities[edit]

Maybe we could also add more into the author's background and her biographical information. This could add context into why the author wrote the book, and where she is coming from in her arguments. Also I think dividing the content section into the sections she presents the content in the book would be most effective. The different sections could all be under the larger content section, but just have sub headers for all the content. BriRHP31 (talk) 00:43, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that adding context into Nagi's personal and professional life could add insight into her own context and relation to the bigger themes within the book. In particular, I think that using her profile on Columbia University's faculty page would be helpful, and would serve as a reputable source. This is the citation for the page “Mae Ngai - Faculty - Department of History - Columbia University.” Accessed February 27, 2017. http://history.columbia.edu/faculty/Ngai.html. Sezshana (talk) 03:36, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Article Sections[edit]

I believe the easiest way to separate the Wikipedia article would be to do it the way Ngai did and include the different chapters she talks about. If we divide up the article into different sections based on the different chapters Ngai has we can give more in-depth information on each chapter she wrote. In addition, we could divide up the article based on the different themes she discusses. Jmpfer04 (talk) 00:51, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Adding a Timeline[edit]

Mae M. Ngai's book introduces a brief history of The United States and policies that deal with immigrants. I feel that the article page for this book should provide a timeline, links, and definitions to understand the references made by Ngai. To comparatively analyze other situations in America's history with immigration, I think providing context in a specific section would allow readers to also put these stories in an accurate timeline. If add a section on time, we will be able to see how America's timeline has changed and again, provide context to both of those subjects in their respective matter. We can chronologically list policies and larger influx of immigrants to America as Ngai does. As the current article has no timeline, I think the timeline would complement the content very well for the reader to understand the argument Ngai is making a lot clearer.Collegekid2020 (talk) 00:57, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This is a creative idea, and one that could really add to reader understanding. It is very easy to add a timeline using a table format. Or you can look at these two models: Timeline of United States history or Timeline of same-sex marriage in the United States Katherine.Holt (talk) 22:04, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, I have seen how to edit it and construct, I hope this timeline can be of use to the readers! Collegekid2020 (talk) 13:22, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Arguments[edit]

So apparently Wikipedia ate my early comment, so I'll repeat what I suggested. I think a great way to organize the article would be around major arguments in the book for each section. This way, readers can use this page to gather an idea of what they book is about and what it will argue so that they can look more at the specific details of the work. Jgriffith19 (talk) 15:46, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Where in the article should we include the timeline? Any suggestions? Make2018 (talk) 22:13, 7 March 2017 (UTC)make2018[reply]

[1] Ngai, Mae M (2004). Impossible subjects: illegal aliens and the making of modern America. ISBN 978-0-691-16082-5 978-1-4008-4362-6 978-1-4008-5023-5. {{cite book}}: Check |isbn= value: length (help)

[1]