Talk:Indiana/Archive 2

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Archive 1

Archive 2

"Lincoln's Boyhood Home"

Yes, "Lincoln's Boyhood Home" is on the Welcome to Indiana signs. However, that doesn't make it the state's nickname. If you look at the State Emblem page on the state's website, it lists "The Hoosier State" as the state nickname and "The Crossroads of America" as the state motto. "Lincoln's Boyhood Home" is akin to Michigan putting Pure Michigan on their welcome signs - a reminder of what tourists can find in the state. Make sense? ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 16:25, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

I don't appreciate you insinuating that I'm stupid and don't get it. You don't know me, and what right do you have to say make sense in a very sarcastic tone. I'll give you an example in Wisconsin their nickname is the Badger State, but sometimes Wisconsin is commonly referred to as America's Dairyland. If you want to conduct a respectful conversation, I'm happy to do it, if not keep your rude sarcastic comments to yourself. Have a nice day. -Spongebob1944

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to insinuate that you were stupid. "Make sense?" was not intended to be sarcastic at all; I was simply asking you if I had expressed myself clearly, if you understood what I was trying to say - not because you are too stupid to understand, but because sometimes people don't understand one another (as clearly happened here).

As far as Wisconsin goes, that should probably be changed on their page also, as Wisconsin History says "America's Dairyland" is the State Slogan, which again is different from a nickname.

At any rate, if you want the Indiana page to say "Lincoln's Boyhood Home" is a nickname for Indiana, you'll need to provide a reliable source that says it's a nickname. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 17:04, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

As if the Indiana's welcome sign doesn't say Lincoln's Boyhood Home right on the front. Is that not proof? Furthermore you were being sarcastic, and you and I know it. If you wish to talk in a disrespectful manner, then I will simply ignore the comments you leave me. I'm not by far the best Wikipedia editor, but at least I treat other editors with respect. Expect you, because when someone is sarcastic and rude to me, I am going to be angry. You seem as though you have all the editing power of or own. Unless you are a top experienced Wikipedia editor I suggest you keep your negative comments to yourself. If you think I'm out of line, please tell me, but I don't believe I am. Have a nice day. -Spongebob1944

@Spongebob1944:Yes, the welcome sign does say "Lincoln's Boyhood Home". That doesn't mean that "Lincoln's Boyhood Home" is the state's nickname. Do you have a reliable source (please read that link) that says it is a nickname? By the way, I have copied this discussion from your talk page to the article talk page to try to attract a broader audience. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 20:01, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

There was a period of time I think in the 60s when Lincoln's boyhood home was on the license plates too. And Unicorn, the state of Indiana's position on what its nickname is only of secondary importance. By definition, a nickname is unofficial. What is needed is a secondary source. It's a minor detail however, and I would not object to the inclusion of Spongebob's copy. Possibly it predates your memory, but it was a common way to refer to the state at one time. John from Idegon (talk) 16:20, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

It still is a common way to refer to the state; as Spongebob says, it's on the welcome sign. But there are no sources (that I've seen) that refer to it as a nickname. "Crossroads of America" is also a common way to refer to the state; but it's the state's motto, not its nickname, and is appropriately labeled as such in the info box. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 18:24, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

P.S. Southwestern Indiana lists "Lincoln's Boyhood Home" as a nickname for the region, but not the state as a whole. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 18:28, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

STATE Website version

Well, according to The Indiana State Website State of Indiana, State Facts the State Motto is The Crossroads of America. Adopted 1937. The State Nickname is stated as; The nickname for someone of Indiana birth or long residency is "Hoosier", a word whose origin has never been determined. Some have said it stemmed from the pioneer custom of greeting night callers with, "Who's yere?" Others claimed it came from "hoosier men", referring to laborers for an early- day Indiana contractor named Sam Hoosier. Still others traced the word to the term "husher", meaning a river boat worker strong enough to "hush" any challenger, or to "hoozer", a dialect word meaning hill-dweller. The state identifies only one motto and one nickname, so for Wiki standards, this is what the article should say. The entry sign is not an official status, it's a highway department/advertisers motto, not an identified nickname. Of course, a reference to the entry signs having the Entry slogan/ad, that works also, but not a reference to the the nickname or motto. So, the question is whether there is some standard for establishing what is the deciding reference. Can I make up a state nickname based on the people I talk with or the slogans in the Tourist brochures? or is there some 'official' source to be used. Since I don't want a sociological study or discussion, I default to the state designation. Chris Light (talk) 20:58, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

EMBLEMS & SYMBOLS

The Indiana State Flag
Indiana State Bird - Cardinal
Indiana State Flag >
Indiana State Flower - Peony
Indiana State Tree - Tulip Tree
Indiana State River - Wabash River
Indiana State Stone - Salem Limestone
Indiana State Song - "On the Banks of the Wabash, Far Away," by Paul Dresser
Indiana State Poem - Indiana, by Arthur Franklin Mapes
Indiana State Language - English
Indiana State Seal
Indiana State Motto - "The Crossroads of America" (1937 General Assembly resolution)
Indiana State Nickname - "The Hoosier State"

External links modified

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Some proposed changes

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined.

Information to be added or removed: I propose adding the below text in quotes to the education section of the page:

"Indiana ranked 22nd in the nation for educational performance, according to Education Week’s Quality Counts 2018 report. It earned an overall score of 75.7 out of 100 points and a grade of C. By comparison, the nation received a score of 75.2 or a C.

Indiana posted a C-plus in the Chance-for-Success category, ranking 29th on factors that contribute to a person’s success both within and outside the K-12 education system. Indiana received a mark of C-minus and finished 31st for School Finance. It ranked eighth with a grade of C on the K-12 Achievement Index."

Explanation of issue: I believe this text would enhance the page, adding information on the quality of the state's K-12 education which is not currently available on the page. I'm asking your consideration because I work for Education Week. I apologize if I've misformatted this or left out information you need to make a decision - I'm rather new at this.

References supporting change: this is the source I'd cite: ^[1] Csmithepe (talk) 17:52, 11 February 2019 (UTC)Csmithepe

Not done This belongs in Education in Indiana. John from Idegon (talk) 19:42, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Sorry if I'm being dense here, John from Idegon, but I don't see a separate Education in Indiana page. I was hoping this text would be added to the Education section of the Indiana page as there is other information there about Indiana's K-12 public school system. Csmithepe (talk) 20:32, 11 February 2019 (UTC)Csmithepe

ah, there isn't. Still oppose, based on WP:NOT and the fact that you're trying to wedge as many links to your employers website as possible into the encyclopedia which reeks of SEO. John from Idegon (talk) 20:40, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
John from Idegon, I would disagree with this response. According to our policy, we must assume Csmithepe is acting in good faith. In that matter, I do not think accusing them of trying to engage in SEO-manipulation is the correct course of action. Please {{ping}} response –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 03:13, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

MJL, whereas you are entitled to your opinion, I don't care. Paid editors lose any assumption of good faith as soon as they show up here to edit. I do not need to assume...if they are here representing their employer's interest, they are NOT editing in good faith. If you have a problem with my behavior, feel free to report my actions at a noticeboard. That will be good for a laugh. Also, there is absolutely no need to ping any editor twice in the same edit. Now, do you have anything to offer on the substantive arguements here, or are you simply here wasting everybody's time by trying to force your view of proper etiquette on others? John from Idegon (talk) 03:30, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

John from Idegon, I wasn't aware that edit summaries ping users as well; no matter. Being mean to any user (paid or otherwise) is indefensible. We are here representing Wikipedia for whatever it is worth. We should not give anyone the impression that we are unwelcoming when they are making all attempts to simply follow our rules. There is no provision of Wikipedia:Assume good faith that makes it null for paid editors. Simply put: this user has done nothing wrong and does not deserve such treatment. (edit conflict) –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 03:42, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

And just so I am perfectly understood, citing WP:NOT with no context is not a valid arguement. –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 03:44, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

- - MJL, please stick your royal "we". You do not now, nor will you ever speak for me. I am not here to be an ambassador for Wikipedia. I and most editors are here to provide the neutral and accurate encyclopedia our readers expect and deserve. The notion of Wikipedia as a social constraint is completely unworkable, and has been for most of this decade. I'm going to tell you this no more times: If you have a problem with my behavior, take me to a notice board. If you are unwilling or unable to do so, shut your mouth. Got it? John from Idegon (talk) 07:48, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
Oppose (for now).

The good: The source, Education Week, appears to be legit and is a publication owned by a non-profit organization. The original report, "Quality Counts 2018", can be found on the ERIC, which is a database run by the US Department of Education. So the report itself is legit as well.

Doing a search for "Education Week" + "Quality Counts 2018" brings up numerous links which would be better sources, for example:

local news - CT, NM, IA, ID, FL, plus many more - however, nothing from Indiana so far

educational org's - NJ, NISL

state gov's - WY, MD, plus many more

national sources - USA Today (Wyoming); searching w/o year brings up this article from The Atlantic (2016)

The not-so-good: However, while this is not a criticism per se, looking at your/Csmithepe's edit history indicates that using the suggested link (i.e. the one to the Education Week website) for every US state's WP page would indeed result in many links to that website from Wikipedia (WP), thus John from Idegon's understandable concerns RE: SEO.

Other thoughts: I do think OP is acting in good faith because they have been very open about their COI, rather than trying to conceal it.

Suggested resolution: I would suggest finding and using sources similar to the ones I listed above, rather than linking to the Education Week website itself. The best sources would be large national publications like The New York Times or The Washington Post, which would likely cover many/all states, and could be used on virtually/all the states' WP pages. But state-specific reliable sources would be fine as well. Perhaps these sources could be used in combination with the Education Week link (however the EW link should not be used alone). The 2018 EW report is somewhat recent, so it may take awhile to find and use these sources, but doing so should allay concerns about COI/SEO.

Best of luck, and welcome to Wikipedia! :) Big universe (talk) 06:34, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

References

^ "Indiana Earns a C on State Report Card, Ranks 22nd in Nation - Quality Counts". Education Week. 37 (17). Editorial Projects in Education. 17 January 2018. Retrieved 11 February 2019.

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

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Indianapolis-1872528.jpg

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"INdiana" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect INdiana. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Steel1943 (talk) 22:32, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

"Indana" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Indana. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Steel1943 (talk) 22:33, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

External links section

This section is a vast link farm, one of the worst I've seen. I'm wondering if it's just best to close eyes, delete the whole thing, and start over. External links for a state should be items of broad interest and have general applicability to the article. A few official government websites and scholarly websites might be a suitable new start.Sbalfour (talk) 22:08, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

I agree, so I removed the vast majority, leaving only what I considered the most vital. Let me know what you think, but I'm fairly happy with the remaining links. Cerebral726 (talk) 15:20, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Indiana Dunes State Park 2016.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:25, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

Editor is deleting demographic info improperly

An editor just now deleted information on Columbus, Ind.'s population increase, information that comes from the 2010 census, a most authoritative source. Go to this site to see the 2000 to 2010 increase in population in Columbus: Columbus,_Indiana#Demographics Dogru144 (talk) 22:18, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

The reason I deleted the Columbus info is that the cited source for that sentence does not mention Columbus at all. That source was published in 2008, so it obviously cannot support any claim involving 2010. It's certainly not improper to removed statistics that have no source specified. Also, the ref you are suggesting be used is apparently to the Columbus, Indiana, Wikipedia article, which is not a reliable source. That's not to say that the sentence doesn't need to be updated since it's more than 10 years old. What needs to be done is find a current source for population growth from, for instance, 2010 to 2019, update all the cities mentioned, and cite that source explicitly. And of course, the 2020 census figures will be released soon, so 2010 to 2020 growth figures could be used then. Indyguy (talk) 22:34, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Description of Native American removal as Ethnic Cleansing

The reference to the term "ethnic cleansing" was removed with a comment that it lacked a citation. I have re-added the term "ethnic cleansing" along with a citation for clarity. Wyattgclarke (talk) 19:43, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Three-Layer states.

The articles' story about the sources of the original American immigrants to northern, central and southern Indiana explains something that I have noticed. Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois each have three layers related to Great Lakes, Highway 40 and Ohio River. Evansville and Jeffersonville built ocean going LSTs for WW2. 100.16.232.162 (talk) 21:41, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 20 August 2018 and 14 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Rconnor001. Peer reviewers: Rconnor001.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 00:25, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Politics

The politics section should note that Eugene Debs ran for president from 1900 - 1920. 76.176.238.151 (talk) 00:22, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

[Edweek-1] "Indiana Earns a C on State Report Card, Ranks 22nd in Nation - Quality Counts". Education Week. 37 (17). Editorial Projects in Education. 17 January 2018. Retrieved 11 February 2019.

[1]