Talk:Indo-Pakistani war of 1965/Archive 9

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Archive 9

Semi-protected edit request on 1 October 2022

Request to update the infobox with these images added.

Indo–Pakistani War of 1965
Part of the Indo–Pakistani wars and conflicts
Top to bottom, left to right: Geopolitical map of Kashmir provided by the United States CIA, c. 2004. Wreckage of one of the four Indian Vampire aircraft. Indian soldiers on a destroyed Pakistani tank during. Sculpture showing the Indo-Pakistani War. Pakistani soldiers on a captured Indian M4A4 Sherman Tank. Lt. Col. Hari Singh of the Indian 18th Cavalry posing outside a captured Pakistani police station (Barkee) with fellow soldiers in Lahore District.
Location Western Front Indo-Pakistani border Line of Control, Working Boundary, Radcliffe Line, Sir Creek, and Zero-Point Arabian sea Eastern Front India–East Pakistan border

2400:ADC1:477:8500:CEE:2530:EA7:F33B (talk) 12:46, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Two of those images are already in the article, and if we are to have images, there will need to be an even number of Indian and Pakistani victories (and I recommend no more than one each). DrKay (talk) 11:15, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

DrKay I have updated the images. Can u please check 103.244.173.68 (talk) 12:47, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

I have put 3 images in as two of the images are very similar (showing men on top of a tank) and as it is an infobox, we should avoid over-complexity. DrKay (talk) 14:42, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

A large chunk of this Article has been wiped to revert an edit that consisted of a link.

On 30 December, a large chunk of this Article was wiped to revert an edit from 4 days prior which cancelled out all contributions by the other 2 users. The Revert was done in favour of a a singular link reference that was previously removed by Gedrose.
Capitals00 has informed us that there is nothing wrong with what happened, any prior page revision can be restored to fix a mistake, it is the responsibility of all who have contributed in between the edit and revert to manually add everything back all over again. Just for understanding, this is allowed and like in a legal court a consistent logic is present throughout wikipedia yes?
This should also mean there is nothing wrong with me restoring the article back to this if i had the Justification, maybe a link was unjustly removed back then? Who knows. PreserveOurHistory (talk) 17:30, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

A thousand bytes is not "a large chunk of this article" whose prose size itself comes out at 77 kilobytes. You also seem to have a fundamental misconception regarding use of images on Wikipedia; they are not actually meant to decorate articles, but to illustrate relevant text with a view to enhancing the reader's understanding of it. There are also glaring POV issues with your images, that others have mentioned in edit summaries too as their rationale for specifically removing the image spam. Of the 6 images you put in infobox, 4 seem to be dedicated to foregrounding various aspects of Pakistani armed forces operations in various regions without any documented pertinence to text. Two deal with Lahore Front (a minor theatre in the larger scheme of things), and the one captioned, "Indian officer with a destroyed mosque in the outskirts" seem to evoke religious connotations and symbolism not remotely discussed in text. MBlaze Lightning (talk) 19:15, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

indian officer with a destroyed mosque is from someone else, i didn't create that entire gallery, i added only 1 image because the image before was repeated in the article, all 5 other Pictures were simply restored by me from old edits. It was present from a while back. I was utilizing the expiration of Pakistani Copyright on its 1965 war images. When Indian copyright expires I can do better, for now what do you expect? PreserveOurHistory (talk) 03:52, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

You havent sent any responding message, what does NPOV mean? You want one of the images to be of India? PreserveOurHistory (talk) 17:29, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Result does not seem fair

As Pakistan completely failed in its Operation to capture Kashmir then how did it he a stalemate. Second thing is that Pakistan Ended up losing 3 times more area including strategic points to India. Meanwhile India not only defended its borders but also captured large territories. 2402:8100:308E:A550:1:0:5B8E:48FA (talk) 13:05, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 July 2023 (2)

Thepdawala (talk) 09:45, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

defeat for India,

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. NotAGenious (talk) 10:49, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 July 2023

Pakistan Won That War After Successfully Defeating Lahore, Sialkot, and a Few Cities in Sindh. Thepdawala (talk) 09:39, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. NotAGenious (talk) 10:50, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Infobox

@Cinderella157 Which of my additions to the infobox were not found in the article? >>> Extorc.talk 16:45, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Being "supported by the article" does not mean that they can be found somewhere in the article but that the article also supports that they were key and significant through more than a passing mention or that they held a certain rank or position or simply said something. None of those added rise to this. The infobox should not report the ranks or positions. Flags should only be used when they convey information between sections (ie when there are more than two belligerents). Branch of service flags defeat this purpose. There was nothing particularly right about the edits at all. Cinderella157 (talk) 00:25, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 January 2024

It was a decisive indian victory. I have proofs of it also. Please change it or let me do it. I will edit it with sources. Thank you SwAGgy79 (talk) 08:29, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Shadow311 (talk) 16:06, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Infobox montage

Titan2456, your addition of a montage to the infobox was reverted because it appears to be inconsistent with WP:MONTAGE. Per WP:ONUS, if an edit is challenged, there is an onus to gain consensus for its inclusion before reinstating it. See also WP:BRD. Cinderella157 (talk) 23:03, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Understood. How does it appear to be inconsistent with WP:MONTAGE? It appears to follows all rules and regulations of Wikipedia’s policy. Specify which part it is inconsistent with WP:MONTAGE, so that I (or we) may fix it and so we can reach a consensus. Titan2456 (talk) 01:23, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Per WP:MONTAGE: Collages and montages are single images that illustrate multiple closely related concepts, where overlapping or similar careful placement of component images is necessary to illustrate a point in an encyclopedic way [emphasis added]. There is no point to illustrate that would make a montage necessary. A montage in this case is decorative and against image use policy generally and guidance on the lead image. It also bloats the infobox, making it contrary to WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE. Cinderella157 (talk) 01:37, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Adding a simple map of Kashmir would not suffice. There were multiple intertwined aspects of the 1965 war, the aerial combat, tank involvement, map and ground warfare are all equally important aspects which cannot be represented in a single map (the one currently used) as a infobox image. Hence a collage would be deemed necessary. Like the World War I and World War II articles that contain diverse connected contents, like the 1965 war, use collages and multiple images in their infoboxes. I understand your point of view, but a simple map of Kashmir in no way can fully represent the complex conflict that the 1965 Indo-Pak war was, using just the map is providing a lack of information to the viewer, and multiple images is the best option. It is not defeating the purpose of an infobox, the multiple images still work to summarize the war, and not replace the article itself as said in WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE. Titan2456 (talk) 05:10, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

For some reason he removes all the collages he sees. If you can't convince him he will never allow your pictures. Because he also removed my collage on a war page Elanoraga (talk) 21:58, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Interesting. Which page was it? Titan2456 (talk) 22:29, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Crimean War (1853-1856) You can look at the edit source and talk page there. Elanoraga (talk) 23:02, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

He almost removed my beautiful collage image and he opted for a simple black and white picture. I was going to talk to him about this but he didn't answer. Elanoraga (talk) 23:04, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for reaching out. I can relate to your issue. I spent a pretty long time setting up the collage on this page, and have even stated the reasons on why the simple map of the region of Kashmir (a modern non-contemporary map) by itself is useless and must be paired with other pictures of the war, therefore a collage not only looks better, but is necessary and more accurate. Titan2456 (talk) 23:15, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

My collage is still currently reverted Titan2456 (talk) 23:15, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

I told him that the Crimean war is a very big war, it can almost be called the world war zero, in my opinion, a collage picture is needed, I told him. but he just denied it with the information he got from WP:MONTAGE and then never responded to me. And there's still a bad black and white picture on that page. Look at all the other major wars. All of them have collages or at most 2 pictures, but there is only 1 picture in the Crimean War and it looks very bad in black and white to my eyes. I wanted to improvement it but I was rejected. Elanoraga (talk) 23:21, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

You should just revert it if one party isn’t open to consensus. I would suggest reverting the undo and putting your collage on the Crimean war page back if they are not being cooperative. Titan2456 (talk) 23:29, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

I was thinking of doing that but I gave up and won't try again. Elanoraga (talk) 23:31, 28 January 2024 (UTC)