Talk:Interstate 95 in Delaware

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Merge[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to merge. Dough4872 14:56, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Delaware Turnpike article is entirely redundant to this article. Speciate (talk) 17:02, 15 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, sorry, it isn't. The northern end of the turnpike is I-295. Imzadi 1979 → 23:18, 15 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If it weren't for the north end of the turnpike being I-295, this would be a good merge. Dough4872 17:59, 15 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I second that. These 2 articles should not be merged. HighwayMaster (talk) 15:45, 7 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You've got another vote not to merge right here. I don't know why this wasn't closed a long time ago. ----DanTD (talk) 12:07, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Interstate 95 in Delaware/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: PointsofNoReturn (talk · contribs) 23:39, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]


I will be reviewing this article in the coming days. PointsofNoReturn (talk) 23:39, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Initial Concerns[edit]

  • The lead section seems a bit too broad. As an example, the New York State Route 22 article (a FA) has a much shorter infobox for a much larger road. The infobox has good content, so moving some of it to the body of the article could be helpful. PointsofNoReturn (talk) 04:01, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • I have condensed some of the information in the lead. Dough4872 01:37, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Review[edit]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:
    B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. Has an appropriate reference section:
    B. Citations to reliable sources, where necessary:
    C. No original research:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:
    B. Focused:
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:
    B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:
    Detailed comments below. PointsofNoReturn (talk) 21:59, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Congratulations, the article has passed. I will now promote the article. PointsofNoReturn (talk) 02:31, 9 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Detailed Comments[edit]

  • 1a
    • "Past this interchange, I-95 widens to ten lanes and passes under DE 58, with a ramp from southbound I-95 to westbound DE 58 that provides the missing movement between southbound I-95 and northbound DE 7." The word movement seems weird in this sentence. Please rephrase.
      • Changed to "connection". Dough4872 23:14, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • Delaware Route 896 does not really need to be in the major junction infobox. It is only a state road.
      • DE 896 is an important junction as it is the main access to Newark from I-95 and heads south to provide access to US 301. Dough4872 20:13, 3 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • Still only a 20 mile state road, but given that the infobox is nowhere near full, that's fine. PointsofNoReturn (talk) 23:13, 3 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • The Delaware Turnpike symbol could be added in the infobox at the 295 junction.
    • Could the I 295 and I 495 junction be combined into one infobox row? They do happen at almost the same place with the same number exits, only different letters.
    • "The road heads into Wilmington and curves to the north, passing to the west of Frawley Stadium, which is home of the Wilmington Blue Rocks baseball team." Could eliminate "which is" from the sentence.
    • "In Claymont, the interstate comes to a diamond interchange with DE 92 at which point I-495 also merges onto the northbound direction of the interstate." Comma needed after "DE 92" and before "at which point."
    • "The Delaware Turnpike, along with the connecting Northeast Expressway in Maryland...." "Northeast Expressway" should be wikilinked to Northeast Expressway (Baltimore) aka Interstate 95 in Maryland.
    • You could wikilink "creation of the interstate Highway System" to Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956.
  • 1b
  • 2a
    • Some of your sources are from the same document but different page numbers. You could merge the citation page numbers with templates. I forgot the template offhand, but you might be able to find it.
      • Some of the annual reports are split into different PDF documents with different URL addresses hence the separate references. Dough4872 22:57, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • 2b
    • This is more of a question. Is google maps a reliable source per wikipedia policy? I use it all the time, but I'm not sure about official Wikipedia policy on the matter. Could you find a discussion on it about Google Maps?
      • Yes, Google Maps along with similar web mapping sources such as Bing Maps are considered reliable sources and are widely used in route description sections of road articles. Dough4872 22:54, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm looking at the info in the route description section. I'm not sure if all the information in the paragraph comes from the two maps. Additional citations might be needed.
      • All the information in the route description can be sourced to the DelDOT road map or to the satellite imagery and Street View in Google Maps. Dough4872 22:54, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
        • Nevermind. You're right on this one.
    • The google maps source is in satellite view. Would it be better in map view? You could add the map view as a citation too.
      • The satellite view is used to show the details of the physical surroundings of the route. Dough4872 20:05, 3 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • That's true, but the map view shows the roads better. I would prefer to have both as citations for the paragraphs. PointsofNoReturn (talk) 02:27, 4 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
          • The satellite view does have labels for the road and the user can simply switch to map view if they want a cleaner view of the roads. I feel it is redundant to have links for both. Dough4872 23:12, 4 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • 2c
  • 3a
    • The closure of a section of I-495 could be covered in this article in the history section. The closure affected both roads. Perhaps copying the prose from the I 495 article would work.
      • Mentioned bridge closure. Dough4872 23:07, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • 3b
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6a
  • 6b

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Delaware Turnpike name?[edit]

I happened to be reading the comments under the Washington Crossing the Delaware Turnpike GEICO commercial (aside: note the California call box and reflectors) and kept seeing "There is no Delaware Turnpike". Just on a whim, I searched the DelDOT website, and, sure enough, mentions of "Turnpike" are in reference to past projects and historical context, such as this report from 2004; contemporary items, such as toll rates and traffic conditions, only refer to "Interstate 95". A search on the Delaware River and Bay Authority website produced the same deal, "Interstate 295". I did a Google search on "turnpike" limiting it to Wilmington's The News Journal to see if they had reported the name officially dropped, or to see if the name showed up at all, but all I got were references to other states' Turnpikes, mostly New Jersey's. Should the article be rewritten with the name "Delaware Turnpike" in a historical context? Does the name still officially exist? I would assume that the "John F. Kennedy Memorial Highway" references could be unchanged since honorary names have different criteria. Of course all of this applies to the Delaware Turnpike and Interstate 295 (Delaware–New Jersey) articles also. Mapsax (talk) 14:20, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The Delaware Turnpike name has largely fallen out of use in favor of just Interstate 95. It's still the Delaware Turnpike/John F. Kennedy Memorial Highway despite the fact no one uses those names though. I don't see any reason to make changes to the articles as the Delaware Turnpike name has not been officially removed from the road, it's just not widely used. Dough4872 21:27, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Just did a really quick search in the Delaware Code looking for a JFK Highway reference and was surprised to see a Turnpike definition. So we have

"Delaware Turnpike" means the toll express highway designated Delaware Interstate 95 extending from a point in the vicinity of Farnhurst, Delaware, to a point at or near the boundary line between the State and the State of Maryland. [Title 2, Chapter 13, Section 1303(g)]

and

The Delaware Interstate Highways 295 and 95 leading from the Delaware Memorial Bridge to the Maryland state line shall be known as the "John F. Kennedy Memorial Highway." The Authority shall cause to be erected suitable signs or markers to inform the public of the name of such highway. [Title 2, Chapter 13, Section 1326]

Two things of note: First, the definitions for the Turnpike and the JFK designation are different so the names aren't interchangeable. Second, if the former definition is taken literally, the Turnpike does not include any of I-295. That could reopen a case for eliminating the Delaware Turnpike dab page as requested above in 2011. I have a feeling that we shouldn't take it literally. Perhaps, however, the Code (not DelDOT or the FHWA) recognizes the tiny section of I-295 between I-95 and US-13/40 as only I-95 access ramps with the I-295 designation starting right at the US-13/40 interchange. Maybe to them the I-95/295/et al. interchange is "in the vicinity of Farnhurst". It's a pain when things like this are written ambiguously. In any case we should add a reference to the code for both names to the article somewhere – I'd do it now, but I'm not sure where it/they would go, especially in light of the above. Mapsax (talk) 15:04, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The Farnhurst interchange is the interchange between I-295 and US 13/US 40 (not the I-95/I-295 interchange), so both definitions have the turnpike extending along I-295 to the US 13/US 40 interchange. Adding the code as a source to verify the routing of the Delaware Turnpike/John F. Kennedy Memorial Highway is not a bad idea, it can probably be added somewhere in the route description of the I-95 and I-295 articles. Dough4872 21:42, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If I could interject my 2 cents here. The JFK Memorial Highway designation was create because the Delaware Welcome Center (formerly the Delaware House) needed to have a physical address (530 JFK Memorial Highway) because the United States Postal Service won't deliver using an invalid address naming convention i.e. 530 I-95 or 530 Delaware Turnpike. YborCityJohn (talk) 02:04, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That is not true at all, the John F. Kennedy Memorial Highway name was given to the Delaware Turnpike in December 1963 in honor of JFK after he was assssinated 8 days after cutting the ribbon to mark the completion of the Delaware Turnpike. The JFK Memorial Highway designation was not created solely to give the service plaza an address, as "Delaware Turnpike" or "I-95" could theoretically work for the address (Addresses can contain route numbers). Dough4872 02:32, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Not that I'm necessarily doubting editors from this talk page, but what proof, RS-worthy, is there that the Turnpike follows I-295 until its first exit? Evidently not anything on the DRBA website.... Mapsax (talk) 16:45, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Look at the sources used in the history of the article and they all hint the Delaware Turnpike leads to Farnhurst and the Delaware Memorial Bridge. The Delaware Turnpike Scrapbook has several newspaper articles related to the Delaware Turnpike. Also the Delaware Turnpike was constructed before the section of I-95 running through Wilmington. Dough4872 20:30, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I dunno, look at the map about a quarter of the way down the first collection, the one right under the "JFK Dedicates...." clipping: As soon as the ramps from the I-95 etc. interchange to I-295 converge, the symbol changes shading, emphasized by the poor symbol alignment. The color on both sides of 13/40 is the same, even across the former rail line. Even on the smaller scale maps, note that the northeastern extent of the highway is shown not quite on 13/40 but just a bit to the west. Sure, there are lots of mentions of the 13/40 interchange but that seems to stem from the side-by-side comparison of 40 and the Turnpike, not necessarily that the route back to 40 in Delaware is entirely on the Turnpike. Also note supporting my second point that there are instances of "the Delaware Turnpike portion of the John F. Kennedy Memorial Highway", implying that the latter is longer than the former. This is not necessarily me disproving, just my interpretation of what I've noticed. Mapsax (talk) 20:58, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Well the maps in newspaper articles do not have reliable cartography as they are not to scale. Also, the Delaware Turnpike and John F. Kennedy Memorial Highway are the same thing in Delaware, as the JFK name was given to the turnpike after JFK was assassinated. The mention of "the Delaware Turnpike portion of the John F. Kennedy Memorial Highway" is in comparision to the Maryland portion of the John F. Kennedy Memorial Highway, which follows the Northeast Expressway between Baltimore and the Delaware border. But the chronology of road construction suggests the Delaware Turnpike was built to have it eastern terminus at US 13/US 40 in Farnhurst. The Delaware Memorial Bridge approach between US 13/US 40 in Farnhurst and the bridge opened in 1951. The Delaware Turnpike between Farnhurst and the Maryland border opened in 1963. The section of I-95 between the Delaware Turnpike and Wilmington opened in 1966. Dough4872 21:56, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Do you have access to planning maps? Discounting the newspaper article graphics, which I agree that we should do, the only official record that we have so far of the Turnpike's location is the Delaware Code without its mention of I-295. It's apparent that the I-295 designation had been created by that point so it's not a case of it being too outdated to include that. Mapsax (talk) 01:23, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Looking through the DelDOT annual reports, I found some information about the route of the Delaware Turnpike that suggests it does not include I-295. On page 59 of the 1962 report, it mentions "With the establishment of the Delaware Turnpike the Bridge Section has been relieved of considerable detail work for that portion of the Interstate System from the Maryland state line to Basin Road known as the toll road." This suggests that the northern terminus of the Delaware Turnpike is at the DE 141 interchange (Basin Road is DE 141), which is also where I-295 splits from I-95. Based on this, any mentions of I-295 being a part of the Delaware Turnpike need to be removed and Delaware Turnpike should be changed from a set index to a redirect to this article since all of it is I-95. Dough4872 01:32, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This page has a map from a turnpike brochure that also supports the Delaware Turnpike ending at DE 141 and the I-95/I-295 split rather than following I-295 to US 13/US 40. Dough4872 01:43, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I went ahead and made changes to reflect the correct northern terminus of the Delaware Turnpike, including making the set index page a redirect to this article. Dough4872 02:23, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Omission and/or bad wording[edit]

I find "After the Delaware Memorial Bridge was built in 1951, the Delaware Turnpike was proposed between the bridge approach near Farnhurst and the Maryland state line near Newark in order to alleviate traffic congestion on parallel US 40. With the creation of the Interstate Highway System in 1956, both these roads were incorporated into I-95." Did you mean to mention what's now I-95 freeway from the Turnpike to Pa. border? The language I see above seems to run I-95 from Maryland to the Delaware Memorial Bridge -- WRONG. Carlm0404 (talk) 06:01, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Clarified as to imply I-95 does not run to the Delaware Memorial Bridge. Dough4872 11:43, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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