Talk:Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present)

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved.

Discussions:

No consensus, 26 October 2023, to October 2023 Israel–Lebanon border clashes, see discussion.
Moved, 22 November 2023, to 2023 Israel–Lebanon border conflict, see discussion.
Not moved, 25 January 2024, to Israel–Hezbollah War (2023–present), see discussion.
Not moved, 11 April 2024, to Israel–Lebanon–Syria conflict (2023–present), see discussion.

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Ambulance[edit]

https://www.kan.org.il/content/kan-news/defense/725453/ 2.55.173.209 (talk) 13:35, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

30 march[edit]

"On 30 March, Reuters reported that an Israeli strike had injured three UN observers and a translator who were monitoring hostilities along the Blue Line. Israel denied involvement in the attack" Later, lebanonian people blamed Hezbollah according to this source [1] 2.55.190.48 (talk) 10:35, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 11 April 2024[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. – robertsky (talk) 15:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) → Israel–Lebanon–Syria conflict (2023–present) – The article covers not just the Israeli-Hezbollah conflict in Lebanon, but the conflict in Syria as well. As the casualties list shows only about half the casualties are Hezbollah, the rest are Syrian, Iranian and Palestinian combatants. In this case, the "Israel-Lebanon-Syria" will imply the location of where the conflict has occurred, not the participants (as recommended by WP:NCWWW). Indeed, it would be WP:CONSISTENT with 2006 Lebanon war and South Lebanon conflict (1985–2000) , which are both named after places the conflict happened rather than the combatants. VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 03:01, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - The current conflict is due to Hezbollah's reaction following the Israel-Hamas war. Syria and Lebanon are not an official and acting player in the conflict. The discussed conflict remains mostly between Israel and Hezbollah with the occasional interception of Hamas, AMAL and other backed Iranian groups.

The unfortunate casualties are a consequence of the conflict and operations between Israel and Hezbollah.

The current conflict is a completely separate event then the previous Lebanon war and there is no reason or advantage in making them part of a chain.

Therefor the current title of the article reflects the body of the article discussing the current conflict and the forces operating in it. OliveTree39 (talk) 12:17, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"The unfortunate casualties" - I don't think anyone is denying that Israel has deliberately targeted Syrian and Iranian military personnel and assets. Its not like Syria and Iran are caught in crossfire, they are very much combatants. VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 18:20, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support - As far as I know, there isn't another article that meaningfully covers the events in Syria and attacks on Hamas and Iranian proxies in Lebanon. The strikes in Syria are clearly significant, and if they're being covered in the article the name should be changed to reflect that. This seems like the best place to put it for now. We can always move things around if later developments warrant adjustment. Unbandito (talk) 22:00, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - The events in Syria belong in Iran-Israel conflict during the Syrian civil war, not here. ערן117 (talk) 03:13, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reliable sources do not connect the 2024 Israeli bombing of the Iranian embassy in Damascus to the Syrian civil war, but they connect the bombing to the war in Gaza:

"[Iran] accused Israel of bombing its embassy complex in Syria on Monday, in a deadly escalation of regional tensions over the war in Gaza..." CNN
"following an airstrike that hit the Iranian consulate in Syria...fears grow that an Iranian attack may be imminent — and the war in Gaza may spread." NPR
"Tehran will soon strike back for the attack on its embassy in Syria that killed a number of senior commanders. The exchanges have raised fears that the Israel-Hamas war that has devastated the Gaza Strip could escalate into a wider conflict." NBC News

Additionally, given that a Hezbollah member was killed in that airstrike[2] its hard to see how that's not related to this conflict. VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 20:01, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That Hezbollah member isn't even mentioned in the article. ערן117 (talk) 04:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. These non-geographical descriptive conflict names have been bogus from the start based on our own guidelines. And as noted, the current title is wayward in terms of accuracy. In Lebanon alone there are other Palestinian groups in play, and then we have the Syria sphere. Israel has also been gleefully bombing lots of non-Hezbollah things. Lebanese villages and farmland for one. Also journalists. And then old grannies and their grandkids out in their clearly civilian cars. Iskandar323 (talk) 20:41, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per @OliveTree39 and @ערן117, additionally/particularly due to the context of the weighting of this article and conflict and a 'common sense application' of who the specific combatants are; almost no one is calling the Vietnam War the "Second Indochina War" in common parlance (due to the involvement of Laos). When someone is referring to the main part of the conflict, there are two primary belligerents, and neither of them is Libanon or Syria (additional weighting criteria like shared responsibility do not apply). It is also a longer and more unwieldy title.

Regarding geographical descriptions, it wasn't the first use of state vs. armed group/armed group in conflict, see: War against the Islamic State, Hezbollah involvement in the Syrian civil war, or of broadly-used euphemisms: The Troubles. FortunateSons (talk) 07:49, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: Most events that have occurred in Syria involve Hezbollah and its funder Iran so I'd rather have "state vs armed group". Proposed title also suggests that states of Lebanon, Israel and Syria are fighting each other which they are not.

Prodrummer619 (talk) 18:20, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Conflict is mostly limited to Hezbollah attacks on Israel, and Israeli retaliation against Hezbollah (which occasionally cause collateral damage to Syrian Army and Iran-backed militiamen).

Ecrusized (talk) 09:24, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose But if so, all losses suffered in Syria to be excluded of the article and Battle box. Is misleading to consider those losses when the name and content exlude Syria.Mr.User200 (talk) 23:43, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Makes it sound like a three-way war and for some reason reminds me of the War of the Triple Alliance. Plus, at the very least the Lebanese state has not been in active conflict. Borgenland (talk) Borgenland (talk) 17:48, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. I appreciate the reason for this proposal (and in particular Iskandar323's point that Hezbollah is in alliance with other groups and that Israel has struck non-Hezbollah targets) but I am opposed (a) because the name would be very confusing and counterintuitive (per Borgenland), (b) because although Hezbollah has allies and although civilians are caught up, it is Hezbollah who are the primary belligerants on that side, and (c) because Hezbollah is not just located in Lebanon but also in Syria so leaving the placenames out is not in any way misleading. I think that the sentence at the top of the infobox ("Part of the Hezbollah–Israel conflict amidst the Israel–Hamas war, Iran–Israel proxy conflict and Iran–Israel conflict during the Syrian civil war") does the work of showing the bigger picture it is part of. However, I agree with Mr.User200 that the Syrian deaths don't fit in the infobox. BobFromBrockley (talk) 11:00, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support civilians have also been targeting by Israel whereas they have all the power to strike with precise surgical touches, it is not just Israel–Hezbollah Conflict anymore. Deblinis (talk) 12:36, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The conflict (or rather an ongoing war) is between Israel and Hezbollah. Yes, the Syrian Hezbollah can also be involved. Sure, just as in any other war, the people who live at the affected territories (Lebanon and Syria) will suffer. But this should not affect naming of the page, which is consistent with WP:COMMON NAME. My very best wishes (talk) 17:24, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Update casualties[edit]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/reservist-succumbs-to-wounds-sustained-in-hezbollah-drone-attack/ 2605:B100:D4E:1E32:0:9:A969:1F01 (talk) 19:33, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]