Talk:Ivo Vojnović

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Vladimir Voinovich and Ivo Vojnović[edit]

His grandson was the noted Russian writer and dissident Vladimir Voinovich. - that is not truth. Vladimir Voinovich never said or wrote it.--Montegorn (talk) 07:55, 12 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Croatian writer from Dubrovnik of Serb ethnicity. His works belong to Croatian language and Croatia, despite his ethnicity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.180.106.198 (talk) 11:53, 30 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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"Serbian"[edit]

Why do some of you keep calling Vojnović Serbian? He did not have much to do with Serbia, he only visited it a few times. I hope you guys know the difference between Serb (srpsko) and Serbian (srbijansko). Sadko Notrium (talk) 00:06, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For the same reason Krleža is Croatian writer and not Yugoslav, even thought he lived in Yugoslavia for the biggest part of his life. Vojnović was a Serb and wrote in Serbian. Why should we have double standards? This sound horrible - was an ethnic Serb Yugoslav writer. Sadko (talk) 10:07, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sadko, Krleža lived in Croatia, the geographical area, even though it was never an independent state during his life. By calling Vojnović "Serbian" you are basically calling Dubrovnik a part of Serbia. Note that even the Serbian Wikipedia does not call him Serbian (srbijanski), they call him Serb (srpski). If you do not like the word "ethnic" maybe we could come up with an alternative wording that you would like? Notrium (talk) 10:27, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There is no need[edit]

@Silverije: Please do not push this POV editing. It was tried before. A writer is no less part of this or that literature, if you state it this way in the lead. There was no Croatia during his lifetime. That is esential for the lead per MOS: Lead. There are exceptions to this rule and Vojnović is not one, because his literature is about both Croatian and Serbian themes and has dual belonging (like it or not). That is widely known and can be checked. No amount of local references can change that. We are in a dire need of other refs (on his work, life and so on). You could help with that, I am sure.

My suggestion is that we add, after the first sentence, which states the fact that he was active and working in Yugoslavia (which that English language work also confirms as the whole section is about Yugoslavia and not modern-day countries), that he is considered an important author in both Croatian and Serbian literarture, which is the case as he worked and published his books in both Belgrade and Zagreb. That is how NPOV works and it per cold facts. Sadko (talk) 23:27, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Sadko: Wikipedia is based on sources, isn't it? And you may like it or not, but they are facts. If sources, not only Croatian ones („local“ – as you say), but also from other countries - in this case among others from the USA and Great Britain - say that Ivo Vojnović was a Croatian writer, a part of Croatian literature etc., then you cannot ignore it and exclude those sources from the article. As for Croatia as a country, it existed all the time and during the most of Vojnović's lifetime, it was the (Triune) Kingdom, although not independent at that time, but within larger composite country. Oh yes, Croatia did not exist between 1922 [1] and 1939 [2], as it was abolished by Karađorđević authorities. Ivo Vojnović himself lived in fact a very small part of his life in Serbia (Yugoslavia). Most of his life he lived and worked in Croatia and other countries. I didn't find any source saying he was a Yugoslav writer, but only „pro-Yugoslav“ or „Yugoslav-oriented“. You always say that no ethnicity is allowed in the lead section, don't you? Vojnović's ethnicity is Serbian, so… - but I let it stay anyway, didn't I? --Silverije 22:57, 6 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Croatia of that time held a largely limited rule and was more like just another land for Austrian and Hungarian overlords; local executive power was of lesser level. It is just wishfull thinking. That is not important, because it is a fact that there was no independent country under that name, which is in focus.The first sentence (intro) is not about which corups of literature is this writer a part of. You are not getting it quite well. It is about his place of residence and work, citizenship if you want. For example Prvoslav Vujcic is Canadian, but he is a Serbian writer. Is it any clearer? I could find you 10 refs which will say that he is a Serbian writer in a matter of minutes. Would you delete them? Vojnovic has dual belonging. Jovan Skerlic wrote about it a long time ago. That has not changed, regardless of your or mine wishes. The only English language ref. is talking about history of drama in Yugoslavia and than breaks it down to modern-day states. It is a wrong interpretation.

I think that these formulations would be correct: 1) Ivo Vojnović (9 October 1857 – 30 August 1929) was a writer from Dubrovnik. 2) Ivo Vojnović (9 October 1857 – 30 August 1929) was a Yugoslav writer from Dubrovnik. 3) Ivo Vojnović (9 October 1857 – 30 August 1929) was a writer from Dubrovnik. His work is considered a part of both Croatian and Serbian literature respectively (add refs). I have deleted a current version (and we can restore the refs.) until a compromise is found, which is a fundamental rule of editing and civility. Sadko (talk) 18:45, 7 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]