Talk:J. T. Ready

This article was nominated for deletion on 3 May 2012. The result of the discussion was keep.

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Border Guard activities[edit]

We need a lot of pumping up on his Minuteman/Arizona Border Guard/U.S. Border Guard activities, which should be the crux of the article (being the source of his non-local notability previous to this week's crimes.) I have a lot of other things to take care of at the moment, so if someone wants to tackle it... --Nat Gertler (talk) 16:37, 3 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think at some point there you will be crossing the line between political activism and encyclopedia style journalism. "Pumping up" a certain point is a clear indication of an agenda other than accurate reporting of current history for future reference. There are other indications that Mr Ready was being employed as an informant by the FBI and that after being fired from a number of jobs payments from the FBI were his main source of income. He had also engaged in a number of activities which could be considered "erratic" considering his neo-Nazi status, such as showing up with an armed contingent to an Occupy rally in Phoenix Arizona to confront police, in a public statement, claiming to protect the protesters from the harm that had been taking place at the hands of police in other states. Whether that was an authentic action or a publicity stunt is disputable, but it was shortly after that when the "murder suicide" incident took place. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.5.233.188 (talk) 16:32, 4 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No, in this case the call for "pumping up" was not to serve a political agenda, but to serve the goal of balance outlined in WP:BALASPS; the recent event was overshadowing the bulk of coverage the subject had received over the years, and rather than calling for the new material to be trimmed, I was calling for the other material to be expanded. If you have reliable and significant sources discussing these other aspects of the subject, I encourage you to expand the article based on those sources. --Nat Gertler (talk) 16:50, 4 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Murder-suicide[edit]

I am unclear about the rules at times, but can the cause of death when looking up daily obits be listed as "murder-suicide"? It is accurate and it does help to take any nobility away from his death at the same time as being neutral. Just a thought.-Tim — Preceding unsigned comment added by Timmyfitz161 (talk • contribs) 07:27, 5 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Former[edit]

An editor has repeatedly put "former" into the lede when discussing Ready's membership in the National Socialist Movement. This is simply redundant; the opening sentence is a "was", all of those things listed are things that he is former, some of them they were former at the time of his death. We should delete the "former"; if there are details on when he was and wasn't a member, they should be in the article. --Nat Gertler (talk) 13:37, 7 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

RfC[edit]

BAn RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 16:48, 22 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Circular reporting[edit]

@Ihaveadreamagain: I have recently removed the addition of the book American Mass Murderers as a source for the "Military service" section. The addition had been made with the statement that it was a "book where this article seems to derive sections". However, that section was pretty much in its current state already in January 2015, and that book wasn't published until March 2015. Looking at the Google Books preview of the book, it's pretty clearly just a copy of various Wikipedia pages, so really, citing this as a source is just citing an outdated version of this very page. That book is not a reliable source for anything, per WP:WINARS. --Nat Gertler (talk) 18:17, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Great catch! Sorry I didn't notice that. I was trying to help out on some of the pages you created and invited people to finish -- hope I'm not causing you too much more work. Where's that forehead-slap emoji? --Ihaveadreamagain (talk) 20:40, 19 May 2020 (UTC)Ihaveadreamagain[reply]

Thanks for the good intent. Luckily, this is one of the pages that others have indeed filled in since I created it as a stub. It's proof that the stub process works, much like planting a little bit of grit in an oyster can create a beautiful pearl. --Nat Gertler (talk) 21:04, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Decategorization[edit]

@Love of Corey: I really don't understand what you're trying to do here, removing categories from this page and putting them into a redirect that points to this page. The only effect that I see of doing that is to remove the "J. T. Ready" name from the category listing, and instead putting in the vague 2012 Gilbert shooting entry. That is not a recognizable term, it's not particularly clear in its statement, and it seems to serve to obscure. J. T. Ready" may not be the most famous soul on earth, but he was sufficiently notable for Wikipedia even before that final incident, and his recognizable name should be in the categories. --Nat Gertler (talk) 00:14, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The categories I removed are for articles about events, not biographical articles. Which this article is. Love of Corey (talk) 01:26, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that doesn't flow. They still end up pointing to this article. And there's not a single other entry in Category:Suicides by firearm in Arizona that is not a person's name. --Nat Gertler (talk) 02:53, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My bad. I'll restore that category right now. Love of Corey (talk) 06:59, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I was just using that as an example to show that your stated reason did not hold up. I am restoring the other categories now. --Nat Gertler (talk) 19:56, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The section is about the event, so the categories can apply to that, hence the redirect. But they do not apply to the person as a whole. We need new categories for that. Love of Corey (talk) 00:11, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Categories are not for the individual, they are for the article. You have made your bold move, you got reverted, now it is incumbent upon you to find consensus before repeating your edit. See WP:BRD. --Nat Gertler (talk) 00:21, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

And guess what the article is about? A biography, not an event. So the categories are inappropriate in this case. Love of Corey (talk) 00:22, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I presume that you've read the article and know that the event in question is indeed covered in the article, so the categories are appropriate. No event is covered in the redirect page you created, and so the categories are inappropriate there. --Nat Gertler (talk) 00:34, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but the event is just one section of a broader biographical article. Love of Corey (talk) 00:37, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

WP:INCOMPATIBLE. Love of Corey (talk) 00:42, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"2012 Gilbert shooting" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect 2012 Gilbert shooting. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 January 4#2012 Gilbert shooting until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Nat Gertler (talk) 20:05, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]