Talk:Jacob Safra

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I took the redirect out since Jacob Safra and Jacqui Safra are NOT the same person. Jacob Safra is the father of the famous arms-dealer and banker Edmond Safra. They are related but not the same people. Stevenmitchell 08:19, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

2 You have broadcast a false info about Jacob SAFRA. This person was born in Aleppo (Syria) in 1891. His family founded the first banking institution in Aleppo (read again the presentation written on the official site of SAFRA GROUP to verify the authenticity of my statements). He then left for Beirut in 1920 to found a bank there. That means he was 29 when he left for Lebanon. His parents are Syrians from the city of Aleppo. His wife is his own cousin (Esther SAFRA). In 1949, he left Lebanon to join Italy and then Brazil in 1952. In this case, he must be Syrian before all, then he could have other nationalities by naturalization. What is known about him that he had the Brazilian nationality by naturalization, but nothing proves that he was naturalized in Lebanon, especially that Lebanon does not even naturalize a Syrian who has a Lebanese mother, then how you explain That a Syrian born to a Syrian dad and mom, on Syrian soil, is a Lebanese man? What amazed me more is that you have canceled the rectification I made on your article without even discussing it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ghayadof (talk • contribs) 02:03, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

I removed the claim that his nationality is Lebanese. Although there are three references after the initial sentence one was blocked by my browser is spyware so I did not look at it. Another is not online. The first is the New York Times which is a solid reference but it doesn't claim he is Lebanese merely that he once lived in Lebanon. We need much better sourcing if we are to include his nationality.--S Philbrick(Talk) 19:32, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

Forbes says he’s Syrian I mean what’s wrong with you? https://www.forbes.com/profile/joseph-safra/

Tariq sofian (talk) 06:51, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

The Lebanese origins of the Safra family

Jacob Safra, father of Joseph, Edmond and Moise, obtained Lebanese nationality eventhough he was born in Aleppo in 1891 as can be seen here-

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K69F-V4X

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VJ1K-FNS

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKDR-91QW

Since 1921, in order for someone to obtain the Lebanese nationality (even if born outside of Lebanon) HIS FATHER NEEDS TO HAVE BEEN BORN IN LEBANON as per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_nationality_law and someone born in Lebanon to a foreign father no matter for how long that person resides in Lebanon CANNOT obtain citizenship as you can see in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization#Summary_by_country Only a foreign woman married to a Lebanese citizen can obtain the citizenship by naturalization.

This means that Jacob's father Eliahu/Eli, eventhough he resided in Aleppo which is where Jacob was born in 1891, HAD TO BE BORN IN LEBANON. So far I have not found a document that indicates where his father Eliahu and his brothers Joseph and David as well as his grandfather Yacoub were originally born (Ezra, another brother of Eliahu, uncle of Jacob, seems to have been born in Alepo according to https://farhi.org/wc131/wc131_428.html) but the fact the Jacob got Lebanese citizenship increases the likability that his father Eliahu was born in Lebanon.

Marie Dwek (2nd wife of Jacob Safra) who obtained Lebanese nationality due to her marriage to Jacob- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKDR-9172

All of the children of Jacob and Esther Safra (Moise, Edmond, Joseph and the rest) were born in Beirut and had Lebanese nationality as can be seen here

-Joseph- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V1S7-YCM

-Edmond- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKDR-9V4X

-Moise- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKDR-9VZQ

-Hughete- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKDR-9135

-Arlette- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2S7-VVJN

Jacob Safra's uncle, Ezra Safra, the founder of Safra Feres Co. in Aleppo, died in Aley, Lebanon in 1951 as can be seen here https://farhi.org/wc53/wc53_335.html and is buried in Beirut as can be seen here https://www.sephardicgen.com/databases/BeirutCemeterySearchEngine.php?NoKind=exact&NoMax=&SurnameSoundex=S160&SurnameKind=sounds&SurnameMax=Safra&GivenNameKind=contains&GivenNameSoundex=&GivenNameMax=&FathersNameKind=exact&FathersNameMax=&SpousessurnameKind=contains&SpousessurnameSoundex=&SpousessurnameMax=&SpousesGivenNameKind=contains&SpousesGivenNameSoundex=&SpousesGivenNameMax=&GenderKind=exact&GenderMax=&GregorianDateofDeathDayKind=exact&GregorianDateofDeathDayMax=&GregorianDateofDeathMonthKind=exact&GregorianDateofDeathMonthMax=&GregorianDateofDeathYearKind=exact&GregorianDateofDeathYearMax=&HebrewDateofDeathKind=exact&HebrewDateofDeathMax=&AgeyearsKind=exact&AgeyearsMax=&TombstonematerialKind=exact&TombstonematerialMax=&StateofGraveKind=exact&StateofGraveMax=&NotesKind=exact&NotesMax=&offset=1&pagesize=20

Jacob Safra's wife, Esther Safra (Jacob's cousin), and mother of Joseph, Edmond and Moise also died in Beirut in 1943 and is buried in Beirut as can be seen in the above link.

In Lebanon, there is a village called Safra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safra,_Lebanon and they could come from there or settled there for many generations and got their name from there. The Safras were Mizrahi and spoke Arabic, lets not forget that. When sources say they were Sephardic Jews it actually means they adopted the Sephardic rites and perhaps Ladino language into their family when they mixed with exiled Sephardic Jews from Iberia.

Some sources say that the Safras were originally merchants from northern Lebanon such as this one https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2000/oct/29/features.magazine47

Its important to understand that just because a merchant or a merchant family traded in Aleppo and established business there and one or two generations were born there does not mean the family has to be originally from Aleppo or Syrian.

A Halabi and the Halabi surname also means those who traded with Aleppo, not just those who are from originally from Aleppo, which is why there are a various Lebanese Christian families with the surname Halabi/Halaby/Halabe as you can see in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabi_(surname). This Halabi merchants traded in Istanbul, Aleppo, Beirut and Cairo/Alexandria and where involved in the domestic/regional/terrestrial trade in that network usually of silk and cotton. A couple of examples are:

-Najeeb Halabi, former CEO of Pam American Airlines and father of Queen Nour of Jordan, whose father emigrated to America from Zahle, Lebanon. Najeeb Halabi thought his ancestors originally came from Aleppo because of his last name but there is no evidence of this and his ancestors could have just been Halabi merchants from Lebanon, not necesarily from Aleppo per se as discussed by Henry Louis Gates in Faces of America in https://books.google.se/books?id=meYbj1E6Ki8C&pg=PA65&lpg=PA65&dq=Almas+Mallouk+Halaby&source=bl&ots=rFkkzjZFO4&sig=ACfU3U3hlqMIm1wobTTCA4erRHx_BTcK9A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwij6KK667PoAhXPwosKHYUUDyEQ6AEwAnoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=Almas%20Mallouk%20Halaby&f=false.

-The Daher family of France founders of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daher. The Daher family was a Halabi family that traded wool and cooton that arrived to France from Alepo in the 1850s https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Daher. Some of the families far back ancestors married in Istanbul. https://gw.geneanet.org/wikifrat?lang=en&p=paul&n=daher. However the Dahers are a Christian family originally from Lebanon, having settled there from Iraq in 1600 (original spelling is Dagher) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daher_(disambiguation).

-The Sedaka/Sadaka jewish family of Lebanon that was also a Halabi family that traded with Aleppo-Istanbul-Beirut-Cairo which is why Neil Sedaka's grandparents were born in Istanbul and came with his family from there. The Sedakas/Sadaka is a jewish family originally from Lebanon as you can see in the Montefiori census that the family lived in Sidon in 1839 and in Beirut in 1849 here https://www.sephardicgen.com/databases/LebanonSurnamesSearchEngine.php?SurnameKind=exact&SurnameSoundex=&SurnameMax=Sadaka&SourceIKind=exact&SourceIMax=&SourceIIKind=exact&SourceIIMax=&SourceIIIKind=exact&SourceIIIMax=&SourceIVKind=exact&SourceIVMax=&NotesKind=exact&NotesMax=&offset=1&pagesize=20 You can see the oldest burials there is record of the Sadaka family in the Jewish cementery of Beirut here https://www.sephardicgen.com/databases/BeirutCemeterySearchEngine.php?NoKind=exact&NoMax=&SurnameKind=contains&SurnameSoundex=&SurnameMax=Sadaka&GivenNameKind=contains&GivenNameSoundex=&GivenNameMax=&FathersNameKind=exact&FathersNameMax=&SpousessurnameKind=contains&SpousessurnameSoundex=&SpousessurnameMax=&SpousesGivenNameKind=contains&SpousesGivenNameSoundex=&SpousesGivenNameMax=&GenderKind=exact&GenderMax=&GregorianDateofDeathDayKind=exact&GregorianDateofDeathDayMax=&GregorianDateofDeathMonthKind=exact&GregorianDateofDeathMonthMax=&GregorianDateofDeathYearKind=exact&GregorianDateofDeathYearMax=&HebrewDateofDeathKind=exact&HebrewDateofDeathMax=&AgeyearsKind=exact&AgeyearsMax=&TombstonematerialKind=exact&TombstonematerialMax=&StateofGraveKind=exact&StateofGraveMax=&NotesKind=exact&NotesMax=&offset=1&pagesize=20Chris O' Hare (talk) 14:44, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

The Syrian origins of the Safras per their official websites

According to two annual reports by J. Safra Sarasin, a private bank owned by Safra Group, the Safra family originally came from Aleppo and then relocated to Beirut.

(Page 28) https://publications.jsafrasarasin.com/publ-dl-ch/dl-discl?dl=381995ECA9162A691ED93C5EA7E24B5482EEA3F979F183D257B761138A22C59BAEB08CF731936604DFD5A77DA4A81D6D

(Page 18)

https://jsafrasarasin.com/content/dam/jsafrasarasin/company/bank-annual-report/annual_report_2015.pdf.coredownload.inline.pdf

A book published on the official website of Edmond Safra, and has the signature of Edmond's wife, says the Safra family originally came from Aleppo and then relocated to Beirut. Page 6, version 2015.

https://www.edmondjsafra.org/book/

This settles it, the family is originally from Aleppo and not Lebanon. Whatsupkarren (talk) 10:49, 2 February 2024 (UTC)