Talk:James Madison/GA1

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewer: Kavyansh.Singh (talk · contribs) 04:38, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator: ErnestKrause (talk · contribs) at 00:35, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

GA criteria[edit]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Comments[edit]

Basic[edit]

Do you wish to take this article anywhere further than GA (in future)? If so, the following should be implemented. If not, them take them as suggestions, but still I'll appreciate if you do so:

The article is currently submitted as a GAN nomination within the limitations of such a nomination. If more editors become involved in the edit process then maybe eventually an FA attempt can be considered, though at his time its a GAN. ErnestKrause (talk) 17:12, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Given the length of "Further reading" section, I strongly suggest to incorporate most of (if not all!) the Biographies, Analytic studies, Historiography, etc. to the article.

Since you are asking a framing question here, like most student of Madison's biography I will have my preferred biographies which I use to orient my approach. Previous editors to this article have had their own preferred sources. I will try to acknowledge the efforts of previous editors whenever possible, though if needed, I may supplement them with other biographical sources as needed. ErnestKrause (talk) 17:12, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well, currently, the "Further reading" section is much longer than the "Works cited" section. Further reading should compromise of works which aren't directly related to the topic/don't have much significant to add but are worth putting in the Further reading section. Taking a quick look at that section, it seems to me that there are various scholar works which are useful for the article, but are not cited. For FAs, it is expected that most of the works which add significantly to the topic should be cited. (Example: John Adams#General sources, Andrew Jackson#Bibliography, Richard Nixon#References) This issues is well out of the GA criteria (article is already comprehensive), but if this ever goes somewhere further, this likely would be an issue. As to more editors being interested, I will definitely help anyways I can to make this a FA, if you too want that! – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 17:55, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It sounds like a good offer, sort of Phase I to get to GA-level, and then a Phase II to transition to an FA nomination. If you have access to a library with all of those references which previous editors have included in those lists, then your idea might work. What do you think? I'll change the TOC to your preference in the meantime. ErnestKrause (talk) 19:48, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, I won't extensively edit the article while I am doing the GA review, but surely would help in the "Phase II" by adding more sources myself, if you are comfortable with that. I have access to most of the sources through WP:TWL. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 07:05, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Add ALT text to all the images (see this)

Good thought. I have now done this for all images top to bottom in the article. ErnestKrause (talk) 17:12, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Few MOS:SANDWICH issues in "Retirement, national leader, and elder statesman (1817–1836)" section.

Sandwich corrected. ErnestKrause (talk) 17:12, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Article structure: I doubt whether we need a "Biography" section. This is the article about James Madison, which definitely is his biography. Better remove that section, and upgrade every sub-section under it by a level.

After trying it both ways, the TOC-4 seems like it might look a little better. With TOC-4 the biography currently has 8 sections which look well-organized. If it is reduced to TOC-3, then the article goes to 16 sections and starts to look a little "bulky". ErnestKrause (talk) 17:12, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

How about using the same structure as in this version, but adding {{TOC limit|2}}, so even with 16 section, it doesn't look bulky. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 17:55, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Article length: At around 79,000 characters, the article is a bit lengthy. But given that how significant his role was in framing the constitution, and his 8 years as president, I can easily ignore that. Moreover, various FA-level articles of US presidents are well above this length, so I don't think this should be an issues. Yet, if I find something, I'll let you know.

Currently the biography takes less than 30 minutes to read which I think is within good limits for such a significant President. ErnestKrause (talk) 17:12, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@ErnestKrause – Would appreciate if you address these suggestion first (especially adding more academic work, which I think will take some time), then I'll continue with my section-wise review. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 14:01, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Kavyansh.Singh: Ready for next set of edit comments when available. Regarding your off-page comments, then I'll try to do your Eisenhower article by next Monday or Tuesday night. ErnestKrause (talk) 17:12, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No issues, whenever you're free. Thanks! – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 18:01, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think the "Further reading" section should be relabeled "Sources" Cmguy777 (talk) 02:32, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Cmguy777 – Well, no, because "Sources" is a common heading for works used in an article as citations. None of the works listed in the proposed "Sources" section is used, so it should remain "Further reading" section. See Wikipedia:Further reading. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 04:29, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A bibliography could be created, if one has not already been created. In my opinion the "Further reading" section is a list of sources. Also, "Works cited" in a subsection is used instead of "Sources" in its own section. Cmguy777 (talk) 16:51, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Bibliography of James Madison exists. Both "Further reading" and "Works cited" are list of work. The difference being that "Works cited" has works which have been consulted in the text, "Further reading" has works which are not consulted. Renaming the latter as "Sources" will confuse readers as-to which one has list of works which are cited in the text. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 17:00, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I understand that. Since there is a bibliography, there would be no need for the sources to be listed in the "Further reading" section. Just link to the bibliography article. The "Works cited" section should be its own section, not a subsection to the "References" section, in my opinion. Cmguy777 (talk) 20:37, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have no objection to making "Works cited" its own section. As to further reading, I'll leave it to the nominator to decide whether it being there helps a reader or not. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 04:24, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Detailed[edit]

Early life and education

at Belle Grove Plantation near → "at Belle Grove plantation near" (fixed linking)
who grew up on a plantation — 'on' seems odd
Montpelier (Orange, Virginia) linked twice. (MOS:OL)
"the South" can be linked to Southern United States
Madison learned mathematics, geography, and — do we need to link math and geo?
was a leading member of the American Whig Society — our article calls it 'American Whig–Cliosophic Society'.
During his time in Princeton, his closest friend was — replace the second 'his' with Madison
The quote "was immersed in ... the cause of civil and political liberty." is not that long to be in a block-quote. We can integrate that in the prose.
Madison began to study law books on his own in 1773. — can remove 'on his own'
Madison asked Princeton friend — "he asked ..."
"Revolutionary War" can be linked.
at his home Montpelier in Virginia — should remove 'Virginia'

All the above merged into text; footnote 6 has the cite for math and geography included. Ready for next set of edit comments when available. ErnestKrause (talk) 19:44, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

American Revolution and Articles of Confederation

Both the article listed in the 'Main articles' template on the top of this section is linked, so I don't see any major use of that template.
King George III — should pipe out 'King' from the link.
not only to freedom of religion, but also — remove the comma
closed-mindedness and unquestioning obedience to the authority of the state. — are the words 'closed-mindedness' and 'unquestioning obedience' directly taken from the source? Can they be rephrase to be more neutral/encyclopedic?
until his election as → " until he was elected as"
independent nation, no longer under the Crown or British rule. — I feel that mentioning 'independent nation' and 'no longer under the Crown or British rule' is almost same. Can remove the latter.
amended by Committee — missing definite article
The country faced a difficult war → "~~The country~~ America faced a difficult war"
becoming a legislative workhorse and a master of parliamentary coalition building — in which author's/historian's opinion?

This is according to JGA Stagg at Univ of Virginia who is linked later on in that same sentence. All the other edits in this American Revolution section just presented above are now in the article. Ready for next set of edit comments when available. ErnestKrause (talk) 20:17, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, but that needs to be attributed in-line as "According to author JGA Stagg, Madison worked to become an expert on financial issues, becoming a legislative workhorse and a master ...". We can't say that in Wikipedia's voice. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 04:34, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Father of the Constitution

He was also profoundly concerned — remove 'profoundly'
and political theory, and — remove the comma
Enlightenment — why capitalized?
highly concerned Madison — Suggesting to remove 'highly'.
experiments by virtue of its size → "experiments by ~~virtue of~~its size"
twenty-five years — can write it numerically as well (25); but all it needs is to be consistent.
and his desire to fight the proposal played a major role in motivating Madison to return to Congress in 1787. — Needs attribution as to who believed this.
1785 [[Mount Vernon Conference]] → "[[Mount Vernon Conference|1785 Mount Vernon Conference]]"
1786 Annapolis Convention — same as above, pipe 1786 inside the link.
he joined with Alexander Hamilton — "he joined with ~~Alexander~~Hamilton" (first-name was already mentioned before)
After winning election — missing definite article
Madison ensured that George Washington — Either 'Washington' or 'General Washington', but not 'George Washington' (first-name was already mentioned before)
who was influential in the critical state of Pennsylvania — why was Pennsylvania a 'critical state'?
Before a quorum was reached — can link quorum (I'm not sure, but it may be a jargon for normal readers)
and present the Virginia Plan. The Virginia Plan was (emphasis mine) — repetitive
United States Senate and the United States House of Representatives → "~~United States~~Senate and the ~~United States~~House of Representatives"
U.S. Senate — U.S. v. United States (consistency needed)
Nonetheless, with the → "~~Nonetheless,~~With the"
Though the Virginia Plan was an outline rather than a draft of a possible constitution, and though it was — repetition of 'though'
two hundred times — either '200 times' or 'two-hundred times' (but still, all the number needs is to be consistent throughout the article)
took the lead in the Convention ... he always comes — add a non-breaking space before the ellipsis
as an historical record → "as ana historical record"
In Federalist No. 10 — specify that it is an article
number of citizens... who — add a non-breaking space before the ellipsis
aggregate interest of the community" ^[58] Madison — missing a full-stop
was jettisoned — a complicated word here, can simplify
During the convention, Madison's Council of Revision was jettisoned, each state was given equal representation in the Senate, and the state legislatures, rather than the House of Representatives, were given the power to elect members of the Senate. → "During the convention, Madison's Council of Revision was jettisoned and each state was given an equal representation in the Senate and the state legislatures rather than the House of Representatives, and were given the power to elect members of the Senate."
president of the United States — mentioning 'United States' seems extraneous.
insufficiently "disinterested" — try to prevent one-word-quote
Though Madison lost most of his battles over how to amend the Virginia Plan, — battles?
in the process he increasingly shifted — add a comma after 'process'
Will continue with rest of this section. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 10:13, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

All the above edits above incorporated into the text. I have rewritten the sentence using 'jettison' with simpler wording. Let me know if another adjustment is needed. Ready for next set of edit comments when ready. ErnestKrause (talk) 01:43, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think we can remove the "Main article" and "See also" templates from the top of the three sub-sections wherever unnecessary.
fellow Congressmen — lowercase 'C'
events deteriorated until the outbreak of the American Revolutionary War of 1775–83 — 'American Revolutionary War' is linked again
of the lands between the Appalachian Mountains and the Mississippi River — 'Mississippi River' is linked again
In response, Alexander Hamilton and John Jay began — 'John Jay' is already linked before. Also, both Jay and Hamilton are already mantionned, we do not need the first name again
Federalist No. 10, Madison's first contribution — 'Federalist No. 10' is linked again
Madison states → "He states"
There is a lot of repetition of 'Madison'. Try to replace the more obvious ones with 'he'
Edmund Randolph and George Mason → "~~Edmund~~ Randolph and ~~George~~ Mason"
New York, the second-largest state and a bastion of anti-federalism, would likely not ratify it without Virginia, and Virginia's exclusion from the new government would disqualify George Washington from being the first president. — quite a few issues: (1) why would New York not rectify the Constitution without Virginia? (2) remove the comma after 'anti-federalism' (3) repetition of Virginia (4) we do not need the first name of Washington again (5) the reader doesn't know that Washington is going to the first president
made up their mind about how to vote → "made up their mind~~about how to vote~~"
with Edmund Randolph — remove the first name
and Washington won the country's first [[United States presidential election|presidential election]]. → and Washington won the country's [[1788–89 United States presidential election|first presidential election]].
as The Federalist Papers in the span of six months, — remove 'in span of'
In Federalist 10, Madison describes the dangers posed by factions, and argues — remove the comma

Congressman and party leader (1789–1801)

New York to resume → "New York and resumed"
At the request of Washington → "On Washington's request"
U.S. Senate — mentioning U.S. seems extraneous
allies of Patrick Henry — the first name is already mentioned before
for his own political career — remove own
the U.S. House of Representatives — can remove U.S.
and Henry recruited a strong challenger to Madison in the person of James Monroe. → "and Henry recruited Monroe, a strong challenger to Madison."
prior to ratification — replace with 'before'
Just a note that 1789 Virginia's 5th congressional district election is an excellent featured article by Wehwalt! See if there is anything important missing the this article.
who looked to Madison — "who considered Madison"
"first inaugural address" can be linked to wikisource:George Washington's First Inaugural Address
1st Congress — "first Congress"
Alexander Hamilton — he first name is already mentioned before
congressional opponents → "Congressional opponents"
the federal capital district of Washington, D.C. — "district of Washington, D.C." or "district of Columbia"? And is it is D.C., add a comma after it.
on the Potomac River — linked again
1st Congress — same as previously mentioned
the United States Bill of Rights — can remove United States
two hundred amendments → "two-hundred amendments"
Constitution, but had — remove the comma
but passage of the → "but the passage of the"
Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton, broadly — at this point, the reader already knows that he is Alexander Hamilton, and he was Secretary of the Treasury. Better write is as "Hamilton" or "Secretary Hamilton"
at the expense of the State's by — doesn't flow well
Should link Democratic-Republican Party
; after a period of consideration — can start a new sentence here
his own faction — remove 'own'
aristocratic monarchy — missing a definite article
into Democratic-Republican Party — should be de-linked and instead linked to its prior instance.
the 1792 United States presidential election — can remove United States
electoral vote margin — "electoral-vote margin"
without British manufactures — "without British manufacturers" (added 'r')
one Democratic-Republican wrote that — does any source tells who?
Adams's Cabinet members — lowercase 'C', and does the source tell which particular member(s)?
as the XYZ Affair took place → "as the XYZ Affair~~took place~~"
Republican editors — what does 'Republican' refer here? 'Republican' with 'R' capitalized is understood today as the Republican Party.
giving government the — missing a definite article
his Virginia Resolutions — already linked before
In 1799, after Patrick Henry announced — Remove the first name
Madison won election — missing a definite article
on its enumerated powers, and — remove the comma
Because Jefferson and Burr → "As Jefferson ..."

Marriage and family

Will take a look at this section as well-as the "Secretary of State" section later. The review is progressing pretty-well! Nice job! – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 18:58, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Above section incorporated. Ready for next set of edit comments when available. ErnestKrause (talk) 01:55, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

a 26-year-old widow, previously wife of John Todd → "a 26-year-old widow~~, previously wife~~ of John Todd"
Aaron Burr — just Burr
in spring 1794 — MOS:SEASON discourages the use of seasons to refer to particular period of the year.
traveled to Harewood, Virginia for — See MOS:GEOCOMMA
Madison enjoyed a strong relationship with his wife, and she became his political partner and Madison was an introspective individual who deeply relied on his wife, seem a bit too similar.
the First Lady of the United States — per MOS:JOBTITLE, lowercase. (also I wouldn't expect the reader to know that James Madison would be president, so they may be confused about the first lady mention, but not a big dea here.
role in the social affairs of the nation. — uncited?

Secretary of State (1801–1809)

as Secretary of State → "as the secretary of state"
Gallatin did, however, convince → "Gallatin, however, did convince"
ad settled as far west as the Mississippi River — 'Mississippi River' overlinked
only by Native Americans — remove 'only'
dispatched James Monroe → sent Monroe
Monroe and ambassador — comma after 'Monroe'
Robert R. Livingston negotiated — overlinked
in exchange for $15 million — suggesting to use Template:inflation
Italics Chesapeake–Leopard affair
totally banned — remove 'totally'
recruited James Monroe — remove the first name
Vice President George Clinton — oveelinked
At a height of only five feet, four inches (163 cm), and never weighing more than 100 pounds (45 kg), Madison became the most diminutive president. Madison was small in stature, had bright blue eyes, a strong demeanor, and was known to be humorous at small gatherings. Madison suffered from serious illnesses, nervousness, and was often exhausted after periods of stress. Madison often feared for the worst and was a hypochondriac. However, Madison was in good health, while he lived a long life, without the common maladies of his times. — all this belongs to 'personal life' section. (rename 'Marriage and family' to 'Personal life')

Will continue later with President James Madison! – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 18:47, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

All the above materials are merged into the text. Ready for next set of edit comments when available. ErnestKrause (talk) 20:10, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Presidency (1809–1817)

inaugurated President of the United States — see MOS:JOBTITLE, and remove "United States"
from his sometimes rival and sometimes friend, James Monroe, — 'from his sometimes rival and sometimes friend', I don't think this is necessary. De-link Monroe, and remove his first name.
Vice President George Clinton — de-link, remove first name
Madison's Cabinet was very weak. — according to whome? we need inline attribution
Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin — de-link, remove first name
not to fight Congress — fight?
as Secretary of State, to be Secretary of State, etc. — de-capitalize, add definite article
Madison did most of the job of → " Madison performed most of the job of"
and were largely unremarkable or incompetent. — according to whome? we need inline attribution
many Americans, Madison included, → "many Americans including Madison"
United States v. U.S. — consistency needed
ended in dismal failure. — remove dismal
in New York City — missing a definite article
I don't think that just two lines about Madison's re-election are sufficient. We need least a paragraph.
May be worth mentioning that John Quincy Adams was John Adams's son.
British force captured Fort Niagara — see MOS:SOB
"inexperienced and incompetent" — according to whome? we need inline attribution
where the delegates asked for → "where they asked for"
William Henry Harrison is over-linked
($109,121.79 for year 2020) — why italicized?
3 million acres of land — need conversion to km² as well
Tecumseh is over-linked
20 million acres of land — same as the previous comment for conversion
Wilkinson was cleared again — possibly rephrase
protection of a corrupt General — should be label him as "corrupt"? I'll say no.
Aaron Burr conspiracy over-linked
With the support of Madison and Jefferson, — repetition

Ready for next set of edit comments when available. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:19, 18 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Retirement, national leader, and elder statesman (1817–1836)

Why not merge the next section ("Death") with this one, and rename it "Later life and death"?
Montpelier, Orange County, Virginia, and Andrew Jackson — overlinked
though the university was primarily Jefferson's initiative — un-needed, I think
The issue of greatest importance at this convention was apportionment. → "Apportionment was the central issue at the convention."
this "straightening out" — who said this?
Jefferson criticizing Lafayette — our article calls him "Gilbert du Motier, Marquis de Lafayette"
but even forged Jefferson's handwriting as well. — we have both 'even' and 'as well' here ...
writes that, → "wrote that,"

Death

In a remarkable coincidence — it is remarkable, but I think we should let the reader decide it. I'll suggest to remove 'remarkable'
former presidents Jefferson, Adams, and Monroe had all died on the fourth of July. — this might confuse some that all three died the same day (same year) ...
His Last will and testament — why capitalized?
as well as $30,000 to his wife — suggesting to add Template:inflation
her own death — we have both 'her' and 'own'

Political and religious views

"deism", "American Colonization Society", and "John C. Calhoun" are overlinked
first stint — would "first term" be better?
The historian Gordon S. Wood — remove 'the'
Expecting some more cut in the "Slavery" section

The template for further trims in Slavery was removed when the text was abridged a week or two ago. If you have further edit trim suggestions for the Slavery section then this may be a good time to list them. The edits above are now in the text. Ready for new set of edits when available. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:31, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Slavery"

American Colonization Society, John C. Calhoun — overlinked
and he viewed the institution → "and he viewed slavery"
During the revolutionary war — shouldn't 'R' be capitalized. I see it capitalized throughout the article.
There are various quotations in this section, few ow which are lengthy. Try to remove less important ones. For example, when the article says Madison initially opposed the 20-year ban on ending the international slave trade, it is understood, and the following quote "Twenty years will produce all the mischief that can be apprehended from the liberty to import slaves. So long a term will be more dishonorable to the National character than to say nothing about it in the Constitution." does not add anything significant.
"It ought to be considered&nbsp...;so great a majority of the Union." — the quote is long enough to justify a block-quote, but I doubt whether the quote is useful
in the United States House of Representatives → "in the ~~United States~~House of Representatives"
of the Three-Fifths Compromise → "of the Three-fifths Compromise"
Madison was president of the American Colonization Society, which founded the settlement of Liberia for former slaves. → "Madison served as the president of the American Colonization Society, which founded the settlement of Liberia for former slaves."
Madison was unable to separate himself from the institution of domestic slavery. — according to whom?
Although Madison had championed a republican form of government, — championed is WP:POV
Madison's political views landed somewhere between John C. Calhoun's separation nullification and Daniel Webster's nationalism consolidation.:
- Madison's political views → "his political views"
- between John C. Calhoun's — remove the first name.
- We'll need attribution as to who has made this comparision.

The comparison was only included by a previous editor to denote the form of the polarity between the North and South debate in Congress. Could change wording further to simplify if needed. ErnestKrause (talk) 20:21, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

a republican form of government v. his advocacy of Republican government — A 'Republican' with a capital 'R' refers to the Republican Party. With a small 'r', it refers to the broader concept of Republic. Clarification is needed in both of these instances.
"all the humanity and kindness of consistent with their necessary subordination and work". — we'll need a citation immediately after a quote.
to Washington D.C., in Washington D.C — it should be "Washington, D.C."
to serve as President Jefferson's Secretary of State, — "to serve as the secretary of state of President Jefferson,"
Paul Jennings (various instances) — remove the first name
“garden-variety slaveholder" — fix the quote marks (“ to ")

Legacy

Historian J.C.A. Stagg — spacing?
as the fourth president of the United States, — "United States" seems exranous
... an overarching national order" — we'll need a citation immediately after a quote.
The historian Garry Wills — remove 'the'
The Garry Wills quote is long enough to justify a block-quote.
wartime President — lowercase
War of 1812 — overlinked
unresolved...Although — A non-breaking space before the ellipsis, and a space after it.
The gallery of images could be center-aligned.

Recent preference at FA is to go with left-aligned as for Vincent Van Gogh.ErnestKrause (talk) 21:03, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Montpelier, his family's plantation — specify 'Madison'
including Madison County, Alabama and — MOS:GEOCOMMA after 'Alabama'

@ErnestKrause – The above comments need clarification, then we'll be almost done! – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 16:08, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@ErnestKrause – Above comments still need to be resolved. I have collapsed all the resolved comments. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 07:42, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Should all be up to date. See comment at bottom of page as well. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:03, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Due issue[edit]

Slavery section[edit]

The slavery section, a sub-section no less, is the biggest section in the entire article, and whose topic is given much more coverage than even Madison's presidency or the War of 1812 -- issues that effected the fate of the entire nation far more than Madison's ownership of slaves. Recommend that this section be scaled down considerably. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 19:02, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the above comment. Also, another issues I saw is that the presidency section is revolved around the War of 1812, and there is little mention of Madison's economic policy ... – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 19:10, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Image review[edit]

File:Restored Mansion at James Madison's Montpelier.jpg, File:James Madison gravestone IMG 4299.JPG, File:Aerial Photo of Mansion at James Madison's Montpelier.jpg — United States does not has the freedom of panorama. We'll need to demonstrate the PD status of sculpture (in this case, the mansion/gravestone) as well.

The operative code for this is in copyright law which you can add at Wikimedia as needed in contemplation of possible future FAC which states: "The copyright in an architectural work that has been constructed does not include the right to prevent the making, distributing, or public display of pictures, paintings, photographs, or other pictorial representations of the work, if the building in which the work is embodied is located in or ordinarily visible from a public place." 17 US Code. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:54, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

ALT text can take some improvement."

Adjust alt text for image. Correction to details expressed in image. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:54, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

– Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 08:36, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References[edit]

The book/journal references in-line can be shifted to "Works cited" section, and used as short-footnote in the prose.
Ref#256, 257 — "Banning 1995" — it has multiple targets.

Corrected. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:01, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following works are listed in the "Works cited" section, but never used in the prose:
- Bernstein, Richard B. (1987). Are We to be a Nation?; The Making of the Constitution. Harvard Univ. Press.
- Matthews, Richard K. (1995). If Men Were Angels : James Madison and the Heartless Empire of Reason. University Press of Kansas. ISBN 978-0-7006-0643-6.
- Rosen, Gary (1999). American Compact: James Madison and the Problem of Founding. University Press of Kansas.
- Rutland, Robert A., ed. (1994). James Madison and the American Nation, 1751–1836: An Encyclopedia. Simon & Schuster.

These could be deleted for now, and then brought back into the article in contemplation of a subsequent FA nomination, or, they can be left there for now with the same contemplation for a possible FA nom. Originally, your plan was to use your digital access to these books to incorporate quotations into the article in a "Phase two" FAC. I do not have access to these books in my own library and can do whichever is preferable for you. Similarly, it is a decision for "Phase two" I think to decide on which single format should prevail at FAC (SFN, or, Harvard) which is not a requirement for GAN. The "Phase two" approach seems the place to do that. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:01, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that is not entirely part of GA criteria. For now, either delete these books, or move them to further reading. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 16:04, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

All moved to Further reading section. Ready for next set of edit comments. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:20, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Image and reference questions addressed and edited into article from the above comments. Ready for next set of edit comments when available. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:03, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Just completed those last two edits on Montelier and Alabama. Ready for next set of edit comments when available. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:27, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wrapping-up[edit]

The following terms are over-linked in the lead:
In this version:
- Ref#15 — check the formatting, the title should be linked
- "www.montpelier.org" — I'd remove 'www.'
- "Univ. of Virginia Miller Center" — spell University
- Hyphenate ISBNs, using this tool
- ""Securing the State": James — quote inside quote should take single quotation mark
- "avalon.law.yale.edu." — should be "Yale Law School"
- Ref#59 and Ref#60 should be merged and sfn-ed:
  - Ref#59 and 60: Fleischacker, Samuel (2002). "Adam Smith's Reception among the American Founders, 1776-1790". The William and Mary Quarterly. 59 (4): 897–924. doi:10.2307/3491575. ISSN 0043-5597. JSTOR 3491575.
- Ref#102 — what does "1970- " represent?

Birth year of living author. Removing. ErnestKrause (talk) 18:04, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

- "Michigan State Univ. Press" — spell University
- " Ketcham, Ralph (2003). James Madison: A Biography. Newtown, CT: American Political Biography Press." is used multiple times, should be sfn-ed
- Ketcham (1971), James Madison, pp. 509–15 — inconsistent with other sfns

This is the first edition published by Macmillan in 1971, and republished in paper by UVa in 1990. I do not have these editions used by previous editors in hand, and do not know if the pagination has been changed over the 20 years leading to its reprint. Keeping original edition in text for now identifying difference by year of publication. ErnestKrause (talk) 18:46, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

- Wood, 2009, pp. 682–683. — sane as above

Wood2009 and Wood2011 seem identified as two separate texts properly identified in sfn. ErnestKrause (talk) 18:49, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

- Banning 1995, pp. 7–9, 161, 165, 167, 228–31, 296–98, 326–27, 330–33, 345–46, 359–61, 371. — sane as above
- Banning 1995, pp. 78–79. — sane as above
- ISBN for Ref#198, Ref#255, Ref#265, Ref#266?

1. 198 is for Roosevelt as # ‎ 978-0375754197. ErnestKrause (talk) 19:07, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
2. 255 is for Rosen which Amazon gives as #978-0700609604, but wikipedia is rejecting. Not added to article at this time. ErnestKrause (talk) 19:19, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
3. 265 is for Madison's Memoranda which is currently electronically linked on-line in the article. Jim Allison and Susan Batte present excerpts from a memorandum by U.S. President James Madison (1751-1836) on religious liberty. The entire document was published in the October 1946 issue of the "William and Mary Quarterly". ErnestKrause (talk) 19:32, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
4. 266 is to Writings of Madison in the 1908 Putnam edition, which is currently linked to an on-line electronic archive. Not in print at present as best as I can see. ErnestKrause (talk) 19:36, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

- Ref#247 — bare URL?
- Ref#293 — bare URL?
- These works are also not used in the prose, Should be merged with "Further reading"
  - Banning, Lance (1995). Jefferson & Madison: Three Conversations from the Founding. Madison House
  - Banning, Lance (1995). The Sacred Fire of Liberty: James Madison and the Founding of the Federal Republic. Cornell University Press
  - Bernstein, Richard B. (1987). Are We to be a Nation?; The Making of the Constitution. Harvard Univ. Press

Once all these changes and the previously remaining changes are made, I'll take a look, make few minor changes, and I think we'll be good to pass this! – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 08:01, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The article is starting to look a bit better. I have added in your comments though the isbn from Amazon does not seem compatible as I marked it in the responses to your comments above (I left it out for now after adding it above in the notes). Ready for next set of edit comments when available. ErnestKrause (talk) 20:46, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Promoting[edit]

Okay, I have now again read the article, and I think it is GA level. Significant changes have been made, and the article is improved. Congrats on the GA! As to further changes to attain FA level, I'll see what I can do. Thanks for your work! – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 18:35, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]