Talk:January 2016 Tel Aviv shooting

Number of deaths

This article focuses on the shooting on Dizengoff Street as the lead says. The shooting and death of the taxi driver occurred afterward and in a different location. For example, if you look at November 2015 Paris attacks it only includes in the death count those terrorists which died at the sites, not the ones who died later related to it. Slightly different but same idea. To me these two instances are related however two different incidents. Any thoughts? - Galatz^Talk 16:14, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Were there other people killed in the attack in France that were killed not in the attack sites? The lead and the title were created before it was even confirmed that the Taxi driver was killed but it is part of the same attack. Just like if someone goes on a shooting spree and kill people in different location and differnt time, it is still part of the same incident.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:21, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Unless you are talking about the death of the perpetrator, which is not part of the incident...--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:23, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

The way I see it is the article right now is set up specifically for the one shooting. If you want to include the Taxi driver; the map should have two location points and the lead should mention both locations. Without those being update it doesn't make sense. Additionally the taxi driver is really a side point to the story, it was the main shooting that is encyclopedia worthy. - Galatz^Talk 23:45, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

Terrorism

User:‎Bolter21, could you identify what sources (fucking or otherwise) such as authorities, the international media, etc have stated unambiguously this was a terrorist attack as opposed to speculation that it was? AusLondonder (talk) 16:59, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

On Friday, after the suspect was killed, the Israeli minister of public security, Gilad Erdan, issued a statement praising the police and security forces for tracking down Mr. Melhem, whom he referred to as “the vile terrorist.” and also Israel’s defense minister, Moshe Yaalon, also referred to Mr. Melhem as a “terrorist,”. Both appear to be public Israeli figures with information on the topic that call him a terrorist. [1] - Galatz^Talk 17:39, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

However, the same article states "Earlier this week, with Mr Melhem still at large, the Israeli authorities had apparently not yet determined whether the Tel Aviv shooting was an act of terrorism. On Friday, after the suspect was killed, the Israeli minister of public security, Gilad Erdan, issued a statement praising the police and security forces for tracking down Mr Melhem, whom he referred to as “the vile terrorist.” Mr Erdan did not elaborate". It appears to me that hard-line politicians are just using a disaster for political capital AusLondonder (talk) 17:43, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Your proof that its not terrorism is by quoting something that says earlier in the week they hadn't determined if it was or not? They refer to not determining it in the past tense. - Galatz^Talk 18:52, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Official sources:

The incident apears in the article for "wave of terro" in MFA: source. It clearly states that the attacker in this incident is a "terrorist".

The three victims are recognized as victims of terror. report from Haaretz and a source from MFA.

All of the three victims have their own article, stating they were killed by a terrorist: 1, 2, 3.

Another source from an archive of terror attacks in the Prime Minsiter's office website: source

Unofficial sources (also stating official sources):

Ynet, The Jerusalem Post, Haaretz, The times of Israel, i24 --Bolter21 (talk to me) 17:45, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

None of these sources are international press which leads me to believe somewhat of an information/propaganda war is taking place. Are these sources neutral, credible and reliable? Does the website of the Prime Minister include victims of terrorist attacks carried out by Israeli Jews against Palestinian Muslims? AusLondonder (talk) 17:50, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

You are indeed, the first person I"ve ever seen to accuse Haaretz of being unreliable. Israel recognizes the victims as terror victims. And Palestinian casualties of Jewish terror are not officially recognized by Israel because Palestinians don't want them to be. Such as Abu Khadier, a name I assume you already know. --Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:03, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Connection to ISIS or IP conflict

User:Bolter21, there are plenty of sources, identifying Nashaat's possible connection with ISIL - mostly inspiration from their acts and usage of ISIL symbolism. There is no source i've seen connecting Nashaat to Palestinian militant factions. Nashaat is not even a Palestinian. Can you bring some solid proof that he did his act in the name of Palestinian nationalism or on behalf of a Palestinian group?GreyShark (dibra) 10:13, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Possible, but Nashaat is now in his grave and after six months, ISIS havent claimed responsibility or anything, so there is nothing to assume. He worked from Islamist motives, we know that from his cellphone videos, where he threatened Obama that he will die if he will not convert to Islam, or cursing Shia Muslims. He claimed responsibility for the attack in a video before he made the attack, in the name of Muslims. He was probably influenced by ISIS and also by alcohol and cocaine as he claimed to use. The Israel MFA links the attack the the currnet "Wave of Terror" anyway.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 10:25, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

@Bolter21:,@Greyshark09: I think you guys are missing a key point. Its Arab-Israeli not Palestinian. Are you denying he was Arab? Even if he claims no group affiliation he is still Arab. - Galatz^Talk 11:54, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Attack by an Arab on Israelis doesn't automatically make it Arab-Israeli conflict. This is the key issue you might be missing - the Arab-Israeli conflict was between the Arab League and the State of Israel, not between Arabs and Jews/Israelis; the Arab-Israeli conflict is practically a matter of past - the last Arab League member party in war with Israel was Palestine Authority during the second Intifada. In a comic way, per your logic since Nashaat was both an Arab and an Israeli so in case he made himself killed - it is an Arab-Israeli conflict between his Arab and his Israeli identity... GreyShark (dibra) 12:11, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Bolter, the Wave of Terror might be a thing combining Hamas, ISIS and other elements - no argue. However, considering ISIS is a part of the Wave of Terror in some way and specifically in case of Nashaat's terror act - the topic is ISIS. The sanctions on Syrian War and ISIS were specifically made in order to distinct them from the sanctions on the Arab-Israeli conflict, since Syrian War and ISIS are NOT directly related with the Arab-Israeli conflict. You should read that exact WP:AN discussion from 2013.GreyShark (dibra) 12:11, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

I don't think it's either ISIS or Palestinian nationalism/Jihadism. 10 years ago it was "someone influenced by al-Qaida", today it's ISIS, tommorow it's Jayish al Cologne, it doesn't make it part of those theaters. I don't think he see himself as an Israeli, those who commit such crimes are not those who call themself "Israeli". The man was also a drug addict and a psycho.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 13:56, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Basically i tend to agree - he was a lone wolf terrorist. My problem is that some automatically connect this to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which is wrong. If anything he was inspired by ISIS. We can just leave no sanctions notice - its fine.GreyShark (dibra) 21:14, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

I do, without sources and without relation to the article.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:43, 14 June 2016 (UTC)