Talk:Jim Lovell/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Balon Greyjoy (talk · contribs) 08:18, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Hello @Hawkeye7:, I'll be doing your GA review for Jim Lovell. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 08:18, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

@Hawkeye7: Just reminding you of this review; the article is in good shape outside of the copvio comments. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 18:20, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

GA Progress Template

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Content feedback

Early life

• Lovell's full name and birthday should be stated

  Y Stated. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 11:01, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

• How old was he when he created model rockets? "As a boy" doesn't clarify if this is when he was a child, teenager, etc.

  Y As a teenager. Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 11:01, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

• "While Lovell was attending pre-flight training in the summer of 1948, the navy was beginning to make cutbacks in the program, and cadets were under a great deal of pressure to transfer out. There were concerns that some or most of the students who graduated as Naval Aviators would not have pilot billets to fill. This threat persisted until the outbreak of the Korean War in 1950." It's not clear how this had any effect on Lovell.

  Y Made this explicit. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 11:01, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

• It should say what Lovell's degree was in.

  Since his senior thesis was on rocketry, I infer that his major was aeronautical engineering. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 11:01, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

  The article paints over the horror. Of the 783 graduates in the class, 53 died during service. One marine died in ground combat in Korea, six Navy and USAF aviators were killed in action in Vietnam, and one died in an accident on the submarine USS Pomodon. The other 45 died in air crashes. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 11:01, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Marriage and family

• I think this would be more appropriate later in the article

  Y Moved down. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 11:01, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

• This is one of three places the Apollo 13 movie is mentioned; all of that info should be consolidated in the "In popular culture" section.

  Avoiding those sections is best. If something is significant, it is better toi cover it in the body of the article. (WP:POPCULTURE) Hawkeye7 (discuss) 11:01, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

  Then I think it should all be consolidated in one section. As it stands, there's a brief part about the casting of Marilyn Lovell in the marriage section, and 2 mentions of casting Tom Hanks and Lovell's cameo in separate sections. While I agree that this movie is significant and has likely made Jim Lovell the most-widely known Apollo astronaut after the Apollo 11 crew, I think this still only merits mention in a single section. My vote is still for "In popular culture" because I don't think Lovell had that significant of a role in producing the movie itself (other than going through a harrowing experience that makes for a good story). But there's currently more content in this article about the movie than there is for Gemini 7 and Gemini 12, and I think both of those missions are more significant in the story of Jim Lovell. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 06:18, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

  Y This has been consolidated. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:07, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

• Is there any more information to put about his time in pilot training?

  Can't think of anything. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 11:01, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

• Is there more information about his time pre-test pilot? There's not much information about his deployment and early squadrons.

  Y Not much - it's only four years of peacetime service - but added what I have. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:07, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

• What did he work on during his test pilot time?

  Y Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:07, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

NASA career

• There should be more information about the New Nine's selection and training, as well as Lovell's assignments

  Y Added a bit. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:15, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

• The Gemini 7/12 subsections should include a main article tag

  Y Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 11:01, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

• The Gemini 7/12 subsections should include more information about the missions themselves, Gemini 7 is particularly short

  Expanding Gemini 7 and 12. This may take a while.

• Dates should be given for Apollo 8, rather than Christmas Eve/Day

  Christmas was a big part of Apollo 8. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:15, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

• Either remove a picture from Apollo 13 or lengthen the section, as its currently suffering from MOS:SANDWICH.

  Y Expanding the section. Will reconsider this afterwards if there is still sandwiching. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:15, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Some things I don't understand about America:

• The custom of "Jr.". Four of the Mercury Seven were their father's namesakes, and five of the Next Nine. That cannot be coincidence. The custom seems to be disappearing, but there is still one Jr Group 22.
• That the first three groups were all male and white is easily explained, given that women were excluded from flying aircraft, and blacks generally excluded from test pilot training. But of the thirty, all but one were married with children (Williams was the first bachelor astronaut) and all were protestants except McDivitt and Anders.
• Why is marrying the girl you dated in high school considered romantic?

Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:15, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

@Balon Greyjoy: All points addressed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:42, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Looking much better! Comments below for the expanded article. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 15:26, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Additional comments

• "For about two years, Lovell and his mother lived with a relative" Was this following his father's death?

  Y Yes. Made this explicit. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:07, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

• I don't want to move around the material regarding his TPS class info, but it reads strangely that Conrad and Schirra were in his class, "but" Lovell graduated first, as those two facts are not really juxtaposed against each other.

  Y Re-worded to make it clearer that Lovell was top of the class, not graduating earlier. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:07, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

• "By July, it had acquired onsdfdfgasde. Extravehicular activity (EVA) had proven problematic on earlier Gemini missions," I would rephrase this to say something about how astronauts had found the EVAs more tiring than expected, since previous missions had successful EVAs. I would then say what Apolo did different (hand holds on the exterior being one of them).

  Y Added a bit. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:07, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

• I added the dates for Christmas Eve/Day for readers unfamiliar with those holiday dates.
• "and had seen a total of 269 sunrises from space" I don't think this information is in the source. I also don't think it needs to be in the summary of Lovell's career; the time in space is impressive on its own.

  Y Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:07, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

• I moved the photo of Jim and Marilyn to the right side of the page, per MOS:IMAGELOCATION. I don't think it needs to be on the left side of the page, so I put it in the default right position. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 13:38, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Copyright concerns

Per this earwig search, there are some copyright concerns. Most of the similarities are from titles, awards, and names of places (unavoidable), but there are two that are worth mentioning. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 14:00, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

• The passport collector reference has about a paragraph and a half that is identical in the Wikipedia article. The source page pre-dates the inclusion of the content on the Wikipedia page.

  It was copied from Wikipedia article NASA Astronaut Group 2 in 2020. The wording is mine. The history of this article notes the copying within Wikipedia. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:00, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

  Whoops! Missed that. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 20:45, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

• A few phrases from the article match up with the Adler planetarium source

  Y Resolved. No longer matches. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:00, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Happy to pass this review! Nice work! Balon Greyjoy (talk) 20:48, 22 September 2021 (UTC)