Talk:Joe Nocera

This article was nominated for deletion on 19 September 2021. The result of the discussion was keep.

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Arts and Entertainment

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group.

United States: Rhode Island Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Rhode Island portal This article is supported by WikiProject Rhode Island.

Journalism Low‑importance

	Journalism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Journalism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of journalism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JournalismWikipedia:WikiProject JournalismTemplate:WikiProject JournalismJournalism articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Tip: Anchors are case-sensitive in most browsers.

This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.

[[Keystone Pipeline#Keystone XL|Keystone XL]] The anchor (#Keystone XL) has been deleted by other users before.
[[Keystone Pipeline#Keystone XL controversies|has been subject of political debate]] The anchor (#Keystone XL controversies) has been deleted by other users before.

Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. | Reporting errors

Byrne section[edit]

This is already in Byrne's entry, Overstock's entry, and the naked short selling entry. The column itself may be "most notorious" in the including editor's opinion, but there are no second sources other than Nocera's own column that mention this column. It shouldn't be here under Nocera's bio, he's written a lot of columns. A summary of each one is not the place for them here. The entries for the subjects of those columns are, unless he is cited for those columns in other sources (as was properly done in this Nocera entry for the columns mentioned in his sourced bio page).

Including just the Byrne piece, that's not cited anywhere but Nocera's own column, is a gratuitous attempt to overkill the Byrne vs Journalists thing in the wrong place. Piperdown 00:51, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think the fact that it is mentioned in three entries is an indication of its significance.--Mantanmoreland 14:45, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Circular reasoning. If this is Nocera's only important column at NYT that merits inclusion in his biography despite no one else besides Nocera mentioning the article, that's an interesting representation of his career at NYT. The other columns cited in this bio were cited in a 2nd party's press coverage of Nocera. This one isn't as far as I can find.Piperdown 17:37, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Let me illustrate my point further. Example: a) Nocera wrote a 2000 piece calling Roger Clemens a "choke artist". No other media coverage on the Nocera column. Using this reasoning of this being cited on several wikipedia entries so it goes here, I could a) put the Nocera quote in the Clemens entry, The New York Yankees entry, and the 2000 World Series entry. b) come back here and put in a paragraph about it, citing that it should go here because it's in 3 other wikipedia entries. Do you see my point? If not, I'll happily illustrate it by doing just that to the Clemens/Yankees/Nocera entries.Piperdown 17:57, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A comment on the notability and notoriety of this particular Nocera column, if I may. At the 2006 annual meeting, Berkshire Hathway, a shareholder asked Warren Buffett about naked short selling. He replied, "As you know, we have a friend who's been outspoken on naked shorting. I don't have a great problem with it. If anyone wants to do that with Berkshire, more power to 'em."

This comment, in turn, came up for discussion on the Berkshire Hathaway-devoted bulletin board of MSN. In that discussion, Nocera's "campaign of menace" column is prominently discussed. [(here)] Scroll down to the post by "insuranceissexy" and follow thereon out.

--Christofurio 15:22, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

a) buffet didn't mention Nocera. b) what is discussed on a msn chat room is not relevant to this encyclopediaPiperdown 17:33, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How is it irrelevant. You asked for "other sources" that mention Nocera's column. You didn't say "other sources not counting msn chat rooms." And if you had said that, there would have been no point to the question anyway, since what is notable doesn't depend on your gerymandering. --Christofurio 18:42, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

what's usable as a source depends on WP rules. My "gerymandering" or my personal opinion is irrelevant to what should be cited on Wikipedia. Pretty sure MSN chatroom discussions are not usable as sources for Wikipedia material, but I'm not an expert on wikipedia, so you might query a admin about that. Piperdown 18:56, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

He has actually written three columns within the space of one year criticizing Byrne and the naked shorting campaign. That is a large number for a weekly columnist and certainly worthy of mentioning in an item on Nocera. Certainly it should not be excluded. As time passes I am sure other column subjects will be added.--Mantanmoreland 21:04, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]