Talk:John W. Gallivan

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Complete Rewrite[edit]

Hi, with the wikipedia tenet "be bold!" in mind, I have taken the liberty of rewriting this article in its entirety.

I am a writer of biographies and histories of the American West and have worked as a contributing editor for an encyclopedia, albeit the old-fashioned printed kind. This is my first Wikipedia entry!

Jack Gallivan was unquestionably one of the most influential figures of the 20th century in the Intermountain West. I decided to start from scratch with this article because I felt that a greater level of detail could be brought to the subject, and that piecemeal corrections would not suffice. I have posted a new article giving proper weight to those aspects of Mr. Gallivan’s life that belong in the entry, and deleting those less central to the subject matter.

I am new to Wikipedia and it’s policies and hope that my efforts aren't disagreeable to other authors. I welcome comments and corrections.

Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ishamk (talk • contribs) 19:59, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nice job! All it needs now is a picture. --Thelema12 (talk) 16:28, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think you did a good job, except with some important details from Malmquist and Kearns-Tribune board documents now at the J. Willard Marriott library. Fitzpatrick should be given complete credit as the architect of the NAC. Gallivan didn't know it was a done deal, like everyone until it was done. Since Thomas F. Kearns (Sen. Kearns Son) was president of The Salt Lake Tribune and majority owner at the time, it is realistic that Fitzpatrick would have had approval from him. A future change will be Gallivans residence at the Kearns Mansion. U.S. census records show him living in Oakland in 1930. Sen. Kearns son, Thomas F. Kearns was living in the Mansion from 1920 until until 1937. Mr. Gallivan was in boarding school during these year. (sources to come) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.182.201.141 (talk) 07:28, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comparing changes, I did not see the new additions as central to the Gallivan bio and have therefore reverted to previous.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.142.233.89 (talk) 13:22, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

These changes are replacing changes for the benefit of actual or real history. The previous changes are 'exaggerations' to favor Mr. Gallivan. Also conspicuously missing is Thomas F. Kearns part in the negotiations. Mr. Kearns was the "controlling owner' and president of the Kearns Corporation (owner of the Tribune)and long time president of the Tribune. It is highly unlikely that any business deal would go forward without his approval. Mr. Kearns and Mr. Fitzpatrick were close friends and business associates in several other ventures. Mr. Gallivan was simply an employee at the time and followed Mr. Kearns and Mr. Fitzpatrick's direction. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.182.201.141 (talk) 14:16, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

unsourced assertions and/or original research[edit]

Recent edits by 24.10.244.102 contain statements that contradict the cited sources, and have no cited sources of their own. I added the note "citation needed" to the statement about Gallivan's not having been adopted, and then set about trying to find a source for this information. No luck yet - I keep finding references to his adoption.

For example, this is from "Local philanthropist Jack Gallivan hopes to end homelessness in Utah," Deseret News, July 9, 2010: "Gallivan said his motivation comes from his upbringing. After he was orphaned at age 5, he was adopted by his aunt, Jenny Kearns, who owned the Salt Lake Tribune and founded Kearns St. Anne's Orphanage, providing homes for more than 100 children.

He remembers going with her each Christmas as she provided gifts for the orphans, and he was infused with the importance of giving to those in need, he said, emotion visible on his face. "I guess you sleep better at night knowing others have a bed and something to eat at night before they go to sleep." see http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700046631/Local-philanthropist-Jack-Gallivan-hopes-to-end-homelessness-in-Utah.html?pg=2 --Thelema12 (talk) 22:17, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am inclined to delete "Mrs. Kearns had three children of her own and was very involved with her grandchildren." I have no doubt that it is true; I'm just not sure it belongs in an encyclopedia biography of Jack Gallivan. Suggestions? --Thelema12 (talk) 03:22, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In response to adoption: ref; Having access here in Reno to Mrs. Kearns very lengthy and specific 900 page will. Her attorney George Gibson of SLC is pedantic regarding heirs to the Kearns estate after her death. While Mr. Gallivan is mentioned as one of "many" gift recipients ($20,000.)as her half-nephew, the corpus of the estate worth millions was divided among her "legal" heirs, her three children only; Estate of Edmund J. Kearns, Thomas F. Kearns, Estate of Helen M. Kearns (McCarthey-Brophy). Malmquist's bio of The Salt Lake Tribune (First 100 years) makes no mention of any "adoption" in this well documented book of the Tribune and Kearns family history.

In addition, the 1930 U.S. census shows Mr. Gallivan living in Oakland with the Driscoll family. Of the numerous archive photo's taken at the Kearns-St. Ann's Orphanage (now a school)only Mrs. Kearns, only her children and grandchildren are of record in those photographs. It is possible after all these years and interviews, Mr. Gallivan considers himself adopted and many journalist have written such. Mrs. Kearns was generous and had several non-legal "wards" including the children of her son Edmund J. Kearns who died in 1936 (La Jolla, CA)and Helen Kearns McCarthey Brophy, her daughter, who died just months before her in 1943 (Reno, NV). After this the estate(Kearns Corporation) was tightly controlled by her surviving son, Thomas F. Kearns and administered by John F. Fitzpatrick until merged with the Salt Lake Tribune Publishing Company becoming Kearns-Tribune, Corp.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.10.244.102 (talk) 08:05, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for responding, "24.10.244.102." I like your recent edits. One suggestion: I think the article would read better if we put the correction to the Intermountain Catholic article in the notes with the citation. Having the assertion that he was not adopted in the text of the article still doesn't sound encyclopedic to my ear.

I know Gallivan attended Bellarmine Prep in Oakland. I haven't added it yet because I don't have a published source to cite. I'll work up some wording, and post it here first, for your comments. "History to go" uses this wording: "Frances Gallivan died at Holy Cross Hospital on Jan. 27, 1921, and her sister Jennie assumed care of the three children, Marian, Jane, and John W., from their widowed father." http://historytogo.utah.gov/salt_lake_tribune/history_matters/071402.html Maybe something like "assumed the care" would be better wording.

Thanks again.--Thelema12 (talk) 01:58, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thelema12 from 24.10.244.102

Putting the Intermountain Catholic note in citations would be fine. The trouble with many reporters is that they have terrible fact checking habits. There was a day when Newspapers like the Tribune had real fact checkers... nowadays they are 2nd level editors doing double duty. Gallivan did go to Belarmine (located in SAN JOSE). And, he did live with Mrs. Kearns, Ms. Driscoll and help, for a short time at her apartments at 1283 E. South Temple (Mayflower) after graduating from Notre Dame (see Salt Lake Telegram 6/11/1938) until his marriage at the end of June 1938. However the reference to Frances Gallivan's death is misleading. "Assumed care of the three children..." for one night? for two weeks? for a year? Omitting information (as in History to Go...)can give many impressions. The trouble with many sources such as "History to Go" is that the writers are often regurgitaing previous writings or articles that have been copied somewhere else. In this case, Mrs. Kearns took care of many children, of relatives, Westcott's, McCarthey's, Brophy, Gallivans, Edmunds 2 boys (with his widow Margaret)... they were usually immediately shipped off to boarding schools. This may sound unattached emotionally... but Mr. Gallivan states this quite clearly in the book "The History of The Governors Mansion(Utah)". He relates that children of the wealthy were often sent away to schools(common practice). Don't have book in front of me, but will add later. Also after the Senator's death in 1918, his son, Thomas Kearns, Jr. was married and lived in the Kearns mansion with his wife, Kathryn Whitney and his three children, Kathryn Jane, Thomas F. Jr. and Colleen into the thirties. Mrs. Kearns also lived there with a Driscoll cousin --Hope this helps —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.10.244.102 (talk) 03:03, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

June 2011[edit]

"67.182.201.141," you recently made a series of ten edits to the article "John W. Gallivan," which is the biography of a living person. None of your recent edits cited a source. Remember that "Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately." Where you are introducing additional facts, such as details about a board meeting, negotiations, or where a person lived (or, irrelevantly, who else lived there), please cite a source. Wikipedia is not the place to publish your original research.--Thelema12 (talk) 21:25, 28 June 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thelema12 (talk • contribs) --Thelema12 (talk) 21:30, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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